I will post some pics on my homepage for you. First, locate a small mast tang, perhaps for a H14 or Laser, place it between 36" and 37" abov the end of the aluminum portion of the mast on the comptip. See address bekow
Hi Eric, thanks for the info. your boat is beautiful. Now I need to figure out a snuffing system. I have a tube from the tiger, but it may be too short.
Re: H20 spin
[Re: Brad]
#26556 12/01/0308:53 AM12/01/0308:53 AM
Brad, I am working on it as you speak. I am on vacation until Jan 5th so I will have lots of time to make something. I have some preliminary designs already. I'll put the pics on my home page this morning some time. I am starting with an extra mainsail bag and the top 4" od a 5 gallon bucket? "El Cheapo Engineering Co. Inc."
I'm not sure of the exact dimensions. It looks to me to be about 10" wide tops. It also seems to taper back to a smaller diameter down the tube. The tube is made out of fibreglass. It looks like it is very thin. It also breaks and cracks quite easily. All of the friction comes from turning the corner on the top side of the hoop. One key is to have a flat turning piece so that the rope doesn't always burn to the same spot. I've seen tennis rackets used and just some homemade hoops.
Hi guys, The tube is made out of vinylester, and is kinda oval. It is 6.5 x 7.5 inches inside at the mouth. The top of the mouth is aluminum that is glassed in and faired. It is about 7` 3" long The whole thing weighs aprox 2lbs and as mike said is very breakable. My kite came with 2 bellybuttons but I think I need to add one more.
OK guys,(and Brad) we are getting ready to make our first mold for "El Cheapo Engineering Snufalufagus spinnaker thingamabob.TM, copyright,patent pending (or not pending) etc. Inc., Co. LLC. please see prospectus for actual risk that was probably not disclosed by the snakeoil sales punk.
Anyway...this should be interesting..gimme a Bud so we can start with the glass work
I should have been asking my questions here! I'm looking at putting a spin on my 20, after having done it for my 18.
I noticed the halyard tang is just pop-riveted into the comptip. What length rivets did you use? Any tips to keep the action of riveting from making cracks in the comptip?
What size spinnakers are you guys using? Are they the Tiger spin that Hobie seems to be selling for the 20 now? Or something else?
In the Chesapeake Bay area the 20 sailors are starting the debate of whether to add chutes, and if so, what size. Maybe someday we'll have a spec, something like the NE N-6.0 sailors.
Keith, the comp tip is very strong, don't worry about it breaking. I can't remember what length rivet I used but after you drill the holes you can see the thickness of the material and go from there. Make sure to use the rivet "sleeves" and sealant to keep your comp tip watertight.
Eric Arbogast ARC 2101 Miami Yacht Club
Re: H20 spin
[Re: Keith]
#26563 12/14/0309:50 AM12/14/0309:50 AM
Is anybody out there using the spinnaker that Hobie now sells for the 20, which appears to be the chute from the Tiger? What are your impressions of this sail on this boat? Just right, under-powered, etc. etc.?
Any info on this would very helpful, so even if you know a friend of friend who knows somebody who heard a story about it from somebody else...
Keith, I just bought the spin for my H20. I don't know if it is the same spin for the Tiger. i can tell you that the foot is long enough that I have to sheet from the rear beam. I have ony flown it once so I can't at this point make comment. I hope to get it out again soon. I will post my experience.
Eric, The catalogs up through '02 show a sail specific to the 20. The '03 catalogs show the same spin as the one shown for the Tiger. This is my basis for saying the current sail sold for the 20 is the Tiger sail. I could be wrong...
Ok, I've looked a little bit more at things, and maybe I've confused things by interpreting what I've seen listed...
The '02 Murrays catalog shows the spinnaker kits by Hobie with the following dimensions for the 20 chute: luff - 27.58 leech - 25.0 foot - 17.0
Given the fun of laying out spins and measuring them, this is probably the sail you have. The most recent Hobie catalog I have shows the same part number as this kit.
The '03 Murrays catalog shows the Hobie spinnaker kits with the chute for the 20 being listed as Tiger/20, with the following dimensions: luff - 27.56 leech - 24.33 foot - 12.0
Similar luff and leech, smaller foot. Depending on who you believe about spinnaker design, the higher aspect ratio design on the Tiger sail might be just as fast without the extra sail area.
But I guess my question now, is what is Hobie actually selling for the boat if you were to get a new one now that wasn't old stock? I'll have to dig a little more I guess...
Wow! 5 feet longer on the luff than either "stock" spinnaker for the 20. I knew I-20s had taller masts. It's interesting to see that the foot is the same length as the Tiger/F-18 sail.
I'm guessing this would put my halyard a little further up the comptip than I should go, I'm not sure a reasonably longer pole would get me in the right range...
Keith The mast is only 1' longer. You could drop it down a foot and lengthen the pole. The 6.0 NE is running the same height as the I20. I think Chris Bolton is running the 6.0NE spinnaker on his 20. I am not sure what the head to end of pole measurement is. Rake the mast back as well. Maybe one of the FLA guys could measure it.
Hobie now sells the Tiger spin as the standard H20 spin. They switched over last year. The Tiger spin should work great on the H20. I have an older design spin for my 20 with 350 sq ft of sail. It is attached 42" up the comptip from the aluminum mast. I have rigged running backstays on it. I've talked to other H20 owners who are trying out the Tiger chute.
I hardly ever use mine because I don't have a snuffer and the deck get's pretty cluttered. I rig it when I do distance racing. It is really fast. The helm on the H20 gets tons of lee helm which takes some getting use to with the chute. This is because the center of effort is in the wrong place when the chute is added. Still goes fast but is kind of a weird sensation.
If you hear any feedback on how the Tiger chute is working out for the folks you've talked to, pass it along! Inquiring minds want to know! I'm really interested to know how the performance compares with the bigger chutes.
I believe that Alex L has a F18 chute... you might just want to try it. If you use the tornado system for the spin bale, you can raise and lower the hoist height by drilling two more holes in the luff track at the height you want for the bale and then adjusting the block tether.
Would love too, except for the good ol' comptip! Not sure the tracks in it would stand up to that. That method of spin halyard attachment is what I used on the 18, but I have an all metal mast on that. I've thought of buying Alex's rig, but the cost of a new Tiger spin and Hobie pole set up is cheaper, although Alex has a snuffer...
With a comp tip you can drill trhough to the other side and have the knots on the outside pulling the track against the luff of the mainsail. This way that sides of the track can not break off. Maybe this will work. I'm not familiar with compr tops at all.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
Was wondering if any H-20S ,-which sounds like some have new sq top mains and various sized spins ,--If any are planning the Tybee 500 or Atlantic 1000 -
I recall in 98 the younger Aussie team racing a stock H-20 W SPIN very competitively in severe conditions that year to an excellent 5th place finish . A couple questions ,--what in H-20 sailors opinion does it take to make the H-20 on a par with an I-20 . larger sq top and larger spin ? -etc AND what is a {factory} spin ? as per Tybee web site reference . quote - The Tybee 500 A Long Way To Go, A Short Time To Get There... A 500 mile race from Islamorada, FL to Tybee Island, GA May 10 – 15, 2004 Organized by the Tybee Island Sailing Association, Inc.
The race will be governed by the Racing Rules of Sailing, 2001-2004, except as may be changed by the Sailing Instructions of this race. Class rules will apply with the exception of equipment prescriptions detailed in this notice and the Sailing Instructions. Classes will consist of 18 and 20 foot production catamarans with beams no more than 8.5 feet and spinnaker rigged by the factory, except as changed by this Notice of Race. Classes shall include, but not be limited to:
Inter 20 - factory spinnaker Nacra 6.0 - New England 6.0 spinnaker Hobie 20 - factory spinnaker NAF 18 - factory spinnaker Open - factory spinnaker rigged Portsmouth .6300 or below.
I,m currently looking at 20 ft boat options to race , I,d like something different this year though currently have an OLDER I-20 that needs a new main .
Carl The word on the street is that the US I20 will become the only I20. EU will use the larger sail plan. They then apply for a ISAF one design status. Just a rummor but makes sense.
side question also --what is the Adventure 1000 - on the Octagon sailing site -is that an attempt to restart the Worrell as Adventure 1000 under this new sailing marketing group?
also-heard something about the iF 20 along those lines ,and Inter making all boats per US version -just rumor
What are the implications - Seems like the existing iF 20 s in EU will not be happy having to change or increase their mainsails. Can,t be happy about that - unless all boat mfg Co,s change to match the added 15 sq ft of main -and the 390 min. weight --from the current 420 lb ---older heavier boats would use a larger spin I suppose to compensate. Is p attempting to corner the 20 market ,or as market strategy making all boats per current US version.
,-are we resigned by boat mfg. cos. to forever have seperate -exclusive mfg classes .Hobie --Inter -Prindle --Nacra -Mystere -Arc -Fox -Storm -etc etc
P rating is not intented and does not function for distance racing,-thats the alternative .
A number of interested catsailors should race as a F-20 in the Atlantic 1000 --I,m currently thinking along those lines but would like to have 5 or more race as F-20s also . Interested to hear from any 20 sailors on the race and modifications of various 20s .
The modifications I,d like --not allowed in I {class} is a reefable main -- mid pole snuffer ,-- maybe stay adjusters - more custom tramp , some small safety features ,-inc air bag in hull.
The Tybee 500 +Atlantic 1000 look good for May 04 - Looking forward to another 1000 mile race -
Had heard about adventure 1000 on the octagon sailing site on the other forum ,--contacted them ,-they said it was an old outdated race they were deleting ,--just checking anyway .
The Tybee rules state ""factory spin "" and the H-20 yet it seems there is no official factory spin - presume the same size as others use would conform to the rule intent ,-but think it would have to be standard hoist and not a mast-head version . I hope we see a variety of 20 ft cats racing this year ,-the more the merrier . Contact the Tybee race officials with questions you may have .
It would of course be much better to standardize a basic set of 20 class specs {as per NA F-20 } has already done ,AND RACE FIRST ACROSS THE LINE WINS .
A good person to talk to is Skip Elliot. It seems that the old hobie kites were 1, too full and 2, hard to jybe in a blow. The tornado guys found that one could get to the leward mark as fast buy sailing hotter angles. And do it without sailing through the sail everytime they jybed.I sail in SF Bay and so I have the 270sq ft It works well for me. Hope this helps.
I have a H-20 spin for sale in the classified section. It is brand spnkin new. I only had it out for a few minutes in the last Miami Key Largo race. I have a tramp bag and homebrewed pole that I will throw in with the deal.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.nensa.org/images/sailfor%20hope.jpg)
