Ask other Karl if he thinks he is the best sailor on the water and does he think a better sailor would have stayed upright. Also, ask Other Karl if he was "comfortable" I'm guessing he will choose a different adjective. But I don't doubt your assessment. Other Karl is definitely macho.

Since we have a new cat sailor on the board, one coming from the monohull world, let me just say there are a couple of things you can do in that situation. I go to the beach, lacking that, I bring in the spinnaker and come head to wind. Kudos to those who can sail through that and those who try.

Obviously I don't think I'm the best sailor on the water, but I will say that I can handle a boat pretty well even if I'm not the fastest or the smartest of racers. As far as a better sailor staying upright, I'll say possibly. BUT, I think the only two boats that stayed upright were on the beach. I remember it as the entire fleet was on their side.




I was greatly concerned with two things. 1. Getting hit by lightning. 2. Running out of lake when we were drifting on our side. and to a lesser degree I was worried about my sails. The main and jib were brand new that morning.




I got nothing.


For that series of pictures we did see the weather coming, when it hit we were headed downwind to the finish on the second downwind leg in maybe 12kts of breeze. It hit like a hammer and we were over. I knew on the first top mark rounding we should go in, when we hit the gate for the first time we were sitting in a good position and decided to push on. (Damn competitiveness did me no favors that day). After the second A mark rounding I was headed for the beach via the finish line, but it was too late, and things would not have gone all that well on the beach either unless I got the sails down and flipped over in a controlled manner.

Ah, but you'll remember that when you're old and gray.

The only way to sail relatively safely in extreme winds is with just a jib.
We took down the main by rolling it around the boom while the boat was on its side which was surprisingly easy (had a RIB unhook it at the top though).

Inland it seems like weather can really surprise you a lot more than at sea.
A few years ago I had this happen while kiting when a big storm came up and wind went from 12 to 45kts in minutes with hail and heavy rain.
That day someone actually died too, an experienced kitesurfer who hit a rock with his head

Where do you Kite Board ?
Here's Me :
http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress/2010/10/the-unstoppable-billy-floyd/
==========================================

Out of curiosity , How many of you have actually
sailed a cat in High winds using Only the Jib ?

If not, then "WHY" ? Is it an EGO thing or
something to do with being Macho ? I'd Like to know
your rationalization .

Last year they had Hobie races at Lake Mohave where
i sail and kite board. It was blowing (30mph +) and
everyone stood around with there boats rigged and sitting
on there beach wheels ; they watched a 60 year old
legless White-haired
guy have a Blast on a kite board, (Me). If i had my cat
that day, i would-a gone out with just my jib ; i'm NOT
that good on a cat, and Still feel it would have bin well
within my personal safety-limits !! You have SOooo much
control over the cat with just the jib ; WAY more than
a fully rigged Main-sail, or even one that's Reefed.

The reaction time on the jib
sheet is Faster than on the Main because of the extra blocks
on the main ; yes a bit harder to Hold the jib down in
high winds, but ...
Just wear gloves.

Before Ya argue with me , remember i'm a mono-huller, and
was taught right from the onset that rigging sail aria to
match Wind power is one of the Most important aspects of
sailing ; i "Still" believe That !!

On an Unrelated side-note, if the Main were balanced at
25 to 28% being the pivot-point, instead of ON the leading
edge of the sail, then the reaction time of the main would
be Faster than the jib because now Ya don't need so much
extra leverage to move the wing. I know that from flying
Rigid-Wing Hang gliders. My glider is 160sq/ft with an AR
of 10 ; i can fly it about the Pitch control with two fingers
and do 70mph while doing it.

Bille

I go back to the '70s sailing the H16. That boat came with reefing points for the main but it was thought that doing so would ruin the sail. I can't prove it one way or the other. At the same time, it was quickly discovered that in survival mode, you can just come head to wind and all is well. On the other hand, driving these boats hard when it's blowing like stink is a rush! And if you do a cartwheel across the water it's no big deal 'cause they're easy to right. Over time skills increased and people sailed in unbelievable conditions. So, it just became part of the culture.

I refered to it as machismo which,imo, is not a pejoritive.

I guess the quick answer is you don't reduce sail because you don't have to if you're good enough. If you're not, you get wet, right your boat and life continues. It's just not quite as easy as it used to be.

back to the original post....

Heard a guy say that when the wind came in almost everybody flipped but that one of the top sailors boat(Gunnar Larsen / Xander Pols or something like that) was ongoing with the spi out there. The argument was that it it would be more safe due to the upward force of the spi. Any comments on that strategy?

I have gone over jib only. You try hard enough and it's easy to screw up.

No. "upward force" is about 8 degrees...not enough to overcome the "downward force" provided by the wind on the sails X the distance above the hulls in the water.

Not sure about all the math, but the spin lifts the bows ( as does everything forward of the mast) and keeps you from stuffing. Always safer to keep the spin up on a boat designed for it than not, assuming you are going downwind and capable of handling/ driving it.

1990 H-17, H-14 National Championship at The Gorge. Winds over 50 MPH at the weather mark. You had to be there to believe it.

See this video of guys who keep the spi up in strong wind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i128Pk8vFbE If I see it right they let the spi totally go when the boat comes up, and the helmsman sets the traveler way out together with the S turn. As I'm not that experienced in strong wind combind with a spi, I was wondering if this is the way to do this?

That's about 12-14knots of breeze. Look at the flag on the committee boat: http://youtu.be/i128Pk8vFbE?t=3m58s

I suspect that those guys are trying to lay the finish line but there are other things they could do to depower the boat and not flog the kite. You want to avoid flogging the kite if possible. The skipper should be bearing away and changing the wind angle as the boat heals but if they are trying to sail a higher line for some reason, this could explain why they keep it pointed in the same direction. In that kind of wind (or stronger) you carve the boat constantly to keep the power level consistent without having to constantly make sail adjustments. If they are trying to sail a high line (perhaps they are overstood), easing the main traveler is the first thing to execute, putting in a little downhaul to take a little power out of the main would be next (not a whole lot...you can overstress things here). The skipper should probably also be out on the hull but it's hard to tell what the water conditions were...putting your weight in may help take a little pressure off the bow but it won't help you sail a higher line. His crew should also be trapezing back as far as possible...it looks like he's in front of the rear beam. He should have a foot on the stern to help keep the bows a little drier. Oh! and good lord, get the daggerboards up at least half way. That alone would make these guys have a much easier day by keeping the boat from healing over so fast and often.

I don't think a spinnaker will take a lot of that so I'm sure that will get expensive.

that video reminds me of the time I was crewing on a 29er and we wiped out big because the skipper didn't bear away in a puff. In the resulting carnage, while I was picking myself out of the rigging, he asked me why I didn't "depower the spinnaker".

Note to self...1) don't crew for inexperienced skippers on skiffs who think they know what they are doing and 2) these small skiffs do not sail fast enough to be thrown clear.

There was no strong wind in that video (15kts tops), the 30kt winds started about 20mins after the video ends on that upwind leg.

IMO the helmsman is a bit late when bearing away sometimes (amongst other things), and releases the traveler because of this.
At 6:52 they passed the lighthouse and really should have been double trapping since the next gate was at quite a high angle.
(We went swimming when double trapped on that leg though, bummer since we where the first F18 at that point).

Arjan, you should attend some races sometimes.
The more sailors the better

Tony --> agree, we try to do that more often. Starting coming weekend in Tiengemeten if the wind is not too bad...

Ok thanks a lot! This confirms a lot of my thoughts. maybe I should watch less video's :-)

I think that was a rather Polite way of explaining
your point of view ; and i "Get-It" now !!!

Thanks : Bille

Furl the jib, travel out, and stay away from the strong surf; that seems to be the most dangerous part.