| |  Re: Nacra 17 selected for 2020 Olympics in Japan
[Re: Kennethsf]
#267083
11/19/13 10:59 AM 11/19/13 10:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider 
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD | Does anyone rave about how great a sailing boat the N17 is?
Does it have a life outside of the Olympics?
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Nacra 17 selected for 2020 Olympics in Japan
[Re: catandahalf]
#267103
11/19/13 06:34 PM 11/19/13 06:34 PM |
Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered
| I think you'll see the class (and Nacra) move to add winglets after the 2016 Olympics. Sailors will vote to add them as it will improve the boat, Nacra will agree to do it so they can sell new rudders and/or conversion kits to all the exiting owners. | | | Re: Nacra 17 selected for 2020 Olympics in Japan
[Re: catandahalf]
#267105
11/19/13 07:42 PM 11/19/13 07:42 PM |
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN rehmbo
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN | Expensive rudders, expensive daggers, expensive masts. Maybe I'm getting old, but seems we're getting a lot closer to the asymptote on the law of diminishing returns curve. Of course, if I win the lottery, I'm all in for some of that cool sh!t.  | | | Re: Nacra 17 selected for 2020 Olympics in Japan
[Re: catandahalf]
#267131
11/20/13 11:34 AM 11/20/13 11:34 AM |
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui jollyrodgers
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 307
maui | ![[Linked Image]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EBp4cxn-jkE/UlfbVXPcr4I/AAAAAAAAWfM/IRTm5n2Eg0M/s1600/n17semaine2013Besson.jpg) Got a link to that "story"? Winglets should help control this. (the photo shows a 17 with the bows lifted up high) | | | !)
[Re: jollyrodgers]
#267164
11/20/13 07:50 PM 11/20/13 07:50 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD | Yup... that's the picture that I think of when I check in on the N17... It is not a well behaved boat in the present configuration and the presumptive plan is to fix it after Rio.
Where is ISAF in this mess.... the 49ner was new equipment and they had several mods to get the boat right.... It simply takes a few years.. Why have ISAF not forced Nacra to get the boat right for Rio ... (the cynic in me wants to know... who gets paid off in this fubar).
IMO, The ISAF selection process failed... They should have never selected a boat based on the hype. Hell they trialed a boat with out the proper mast even designed!... and the assurances of pete melvin about just how great the new stuff would be... nothing more then crap! There is nothing revolutionary about this design (that works well)... In fact, they just added to the premium price... EG. curved boards.... carbon sticks and after Rio winged rudders.
As far as I can see... the only group that made out on this fubar is NACRA. The Olympic sailors deserve a boat at least as good as the Tornado or an F18. ISAF should give them that boat NOW.
Meanwhile... the BS that we need NEW... Ground breaking Cutting EDGE Olympic equipment... was a load of crap..
Notice all of the new equipment that ISAF wants to use for 2020 ... eg ... the 470... Laser... 49ner and 49ner XX and RSX Board. These are tried and true gear and have not changed in a generation.
Sadly, we did this to ourselves...
OH... and the grand plan... to move from Mixed to Men's and Woman's Multihulls... Up in smoke... Turns out... (and as I argued with JW at the time) was just nothing more then the propaganda used by OUR representatives to sell the god for saken Mixed disipline.. So... today... we just learned that If they get more events... they will be in KITES... not another multihull.... (Hard to see how you could get MIXED kites)
Nope... once the multihull was in... as Mixed... the Finn class could breathe a sigh of relief... And they just got rubber stamped for 2020.
Remember.... at the time of this decision.. LE had already won the cup on Dogzilla and there was NO WAY IN HELL that the olympics would not fix the Tornado disaster and put a Multihull back in....
We played the hand poorly.
We were screwed by our own volition and short sighted leadership. Sigh....
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: !)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#267166
11/20/13 09:11 PM 11/20/13 09:11 PM |
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 14 Arbo
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
| | | | Re: !)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#267175
11/21/13 08:30 AM 11/21/13 08:30 AM |
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC bacho
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC | Yup... that's the picture that I think of when I check in on the N17... It is not a well behaved boat in the present configuration and the presumptive plan is to fix it after Rio.
Where is ISAF in this mess.... the 49ner was new equipment and they had several mods to get the boat right.... It simply takes a few years.. Why have ISAF not forced Nacra to get the boat right for Rio ... (the cynic in me wants to know... who gets paid off in this fubar).
IMO, The ISAF selection process failed... They should have never selected a boat based on the hype. Hell they trialed a boat with out the proper mast even designed!... and the assurances of pete melvin about just how great the new stuff would be... nothing more then crap! There is nothing revolutionary about this design (that works well)... In fact, they just added to the premium price... EG. curved boards.... carbon sticks and after Rio winged rudders.
As far as I can see... the only group that made out on this fubar is NACRA. The Olympic sailors deserve a boat at least as good as the Tornado or an F18. ISAF should give them that boat NOW.
Meanwhile... the BS that we need NEW... Ground breaking Cutting EDGE Olympic equipment... was a load of crap..
Notice all of the new equipment that ISAF wants to use for 2020 ... eg ... the 470... Laser... 49ner and 49ner XX and RSX Board. These are tried and true gear and have not changed in a generation.
Sadly, we did this to ourselves...
OH... and the grand plan... to move from Mixed to Men's and Woman's Multihulls... Up in smoke... Turns out... (and as I argued with JW at the time) was just nothing more then the propaganda used by OUR representatives to sell the god for saken Mixed disipline.. So... today... we just learned that If they get more events... they will be in KITES... not another multihull.... (Hard to see how you could get MIXED kites)
Nope... once the multihull was in... as Mixed... the Finn class could breathe a sigh of relief... And they just got rubber stamped for 2020.
Remember.... at the time of this decision.. LE had already won the cup on Dogzilla and there was NO WAY IN HELL that the olympics would not fix the Tornado disaster and put a Multihull back in....
We played the hand poorly.
We were screwed by our own volition and short sighted leadership. Sigh....
I agree that the Nacra seems to be a very expensive, under developed boat. I don't think I would want it if I were in the Olympic running. However, if I remember correctly, most of the testers were Olympic athletes or hopefuls. They picked that boat as a group over the other choices that were brought to the selection process. | | | Re: !)
[Re: catandahalf]
#267176
11/21/13 09:13 AM 11/21/13 09:13 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA tshan
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Eastern NC, USA | For some reason, I don't think the boat sails like that picture when under control by an experienced N17 crew. Could that be the case? If that assumption is true, then it puts the onus on the sailors to manage the boat appropriately in order to win the race. Is that not what we want? How is that a FUBAR? The best sailors with the most experience on the boat are going to win, either way - right?
Tom
| | | Re: !)
[Re: catandahalf]
#267178
11/21/13 09:52 AM 11/21/13 09:52 AM |
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma Jeff.Dusek
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Posts: 554
Boston, Ma | I've talked at length with many people who have sailed the 17, and they all really enjoy the boat. Sure the boat is powered up and sometimes crashes in big breeze- but these are Olympic level athletes and the boat should be a challenge. I really enjoyed Luke Ramsay's blog post today where he talked about the learning curve of the boat and just how much fun he is having: http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Nikola-Girke-and-Luke-Ramsay-train-in-Miami/116898Why so negative all the time?
USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
| | | Re: !)
[Re: tshan]
#267179
11/21/13 09:52 AM 11/21/13 09:52 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Clermont, FL, USA | For some reason, I don't think the boat sails like that picture when under control by an experienced N17 crew. Could that be the case? If that assumption is true, then it puts the onus on the sailors to manage the boat appropriately in order to win the race. Is that not what we want? How is that a FUBAR? The best sailors with the most experience on the boat are going to win, either way - right? I think Jake put it best.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: !)
[Re: tshan]
#267182
11/21/13 10:00 AM 11/21/13 10:00 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD | Ah.... the best description of what you want in an Olympic Boat that I know is from Bill Roberts. He used a Formula 1 race car analogy.... noting... the pro drivers can manage this car while amateurs go into the wall. Goran Marstrom (Tornado and M20)builder wanted a boat that was sensitive to the actions of the crew (Bill Roberts criteria) and allowed the team to race the boat tactically. Together these attributes allow an Olympic level race to sort out very very fine degrees of skill and eliminate luck as much as possible.
So..the combination allows the BEST sailor to medal. Just having a boat that is hard to sail or badly behaved is a low bar. Hell... if this is our standard... the Hobie 16, is hard to sail by newbies... yet the top sailors have no problems.
So... what you don't hear are glowing testimonials about what a great sailing boat the N17 is.... Compare that to the A cat sailors talking about how wonderful the Flyer and like ilk A cats are.... and now they are over the moon about the DNA generation boats with winglets and the right foils. (IME, both are true and on par with the Tornado as machines) The new boats are faster, easier to sail and make the game fast and tactical. THAT should be the Olympic Boat as well.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: !)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#267185
11/21/13 11:48 AM 11/21/13 11:48 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Carpal Tunnel
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. |
So... what you don't hear are glowing testimonials about what a great sailing boat the N17 is....
Maybe the reason you "don't hear" anything is because the owners of N-17s are exclusively Olympic hopefuls (that's why they bought them) who are actually SAILING and training in the gym and elsewhere and it's highly likely they feel their time can be better spent improving their sailing than getting on a forum and trying to convince someone who rarely sails a cat anymore, that any shift from perfection is not the end of the world and a Doomsday for catsailing. Maybe you should try getting up with some of the owners and actually ASK them what they think. Personally the only thing that interests me about Olympic sailing is the people involved, as long as it's on a challenging boat. I think too much is made of it's importance to the sport.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
| | | Re: !)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#267188
11/21/13 12:05 PM 11/21/13 12:05 PM |
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA tshan
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old hand
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Eastern NC, USA | Two posts above yours is a link to an actual Olympic hopeful talking about getting up to speed on the boat. I'll take their words over yours.
Tom
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