That will be real interesting when they get to the mud flats!

or sea grass

I would try...in a heartbeat!

I was talking more about the production boats but you bring up an interesting aspect of this. What we saw in the development and creation of spinnaker equipped cats was largely created by the distance racers in the Worrell. This was because it was an open boat event where the boats had to meet only a few parameters and we saw home builds and all sorts of stuff designed to go fast. The first thing I thought of when I saw the Phantom was how fast you could get up the Florida coast if you could keep it in one piece.

People have been tinkering with foiling cats long before I started sailing in '99 ... so this isn't incredibly new. I suppose in the absence of open distance races, the America's Cup has served as the motivating force in a more in-direct way.

I'm interested though, will this foiling thing stick or will it be a fad? It's expensive and requires a new skill set. The Hobie Trifoiler and Windrider Rave didn't do all that well...why is this different?

Members of the Tornado class pushed for spis in the games. First olympic games with spi on the T was 2004, but development started before 2000.

Hobie Tiger had a spi option. F18 class was started with a spi as standard equipment.


I would not say that events pushed the technology as Mark seems to argue. It is sailors who push the egdes and work on stuff they think is fun/interesting. Equipment is built and then we get the events. The sparkplug is the idea and the doers who build and market.

With the AC and the C-class now going foiling, I am pretty certain that foiling on cats will catch on big time.

Please do remember that cat sailing is enjoyed in Europe as well when finding the "source of all spis" on cats in the Worrel and other US events.

Isn't that about the same price as a foiling moth?

Both good questions. To the latter (price) question I'm sure it's only a matter of time/interest before technologies for design/production reduce the overall cost to something akin to "reasonable" for a high-performance boat.

The "Fad" thing is more nebulous. As you indicate, it is expensive and requires a whole new skill set. Right now we're seeing the 'early-adopters' developing the platforms through trial and error. I suspect it will eventually disseminate to high-performance racing oriented people and therefore show a bit of success albeit at the expense of further dividing up the small racing community into another fleet.

But, to be a game-changer in terms of its long term success, I suspect it will have to be a technology that can appeal to a wider set of sailors: namely those part-time racers (cost) and recreational sailors (cost vs. ease of use vs. durability)

The H16 is a perennial favorite because you can race (OD or PHRF) if you want, or strap a cooler on there and go gunkhole for a weekend with family or strippers. The price is reasonable for both racer and non-racer, the boat is reasonably durable, etc.

Will the same be true for a foiling cat? I don't see many moths out for a cruise with kids (they probably should), and I can't imagine the challenge for foiling on the Steeplechase (sandbars) or Miami Key Largo route (seagrass). Would you be willing to take non-sailors out on your $40,000 boat "just to tool around"?

Rolf, the issue is not what cool stuff can inventive people come up with... and perhaps catch on... Gordon Isco was foiling his hobie 18 a long long time ago... The issue is what drives groups of people to go racing... and the answer is... Its the race.
The T is a particularly bad example of the gear driving anything. The class had a trials in Miami to test out course configs and new gear by way of sailplans (spin, non spin and modificiations). Everybody brought their cool stuff. The trend back then was to push for trapazoid courses to max fan appeal.... eg. the blast reach legs (now part of the AC racing). Booth and Forbes showed that the square top T was faster around the Trapazoid course then the spin boats. Smyth was doing the spin tornado at the trials having done lots of worrels by then ... My comment at the bar to forbes was... wow... every rec sailor on the planet wants a cat with a spin... Why would the Olympics Class not go that way. ... His answer... well.. it's about the Olympics.
Indeed, it was some members of the class.... because the actual class rank and file voted the spin down... and then magic happened and ISAF got their way with the T class spinoff and the olympic sailors were going to the spin for the Olympics. The rank and file adjusted their opinion and voted to go along.

The event most definitely drove the equipment.
(The Worrel was conceived and run as non stop on Hobie 16s... and then bigger better faster took over)

Jake makes a good point about the Trifoiler and the Rave. They remained cool toys and not racers... My suggestion is that there were no races that people wanted to (or could do) do on these boats to make them viable.

For a current example... take a look at the single handed with spin class. Builders have generated the Nacra 17 and then the Nacra F17. the Marstrom 18 (A class with spin) and the F16 single hander.. There is no event that motivates sailors to race and these boats don't really have a class. Instead the Hobie 17 and the A class chug along. The A class incorporates new technology daily but its the racing that keeps the interest up... not the technology.

Here you go Jay, you can get a used Moth for only $16,000.

http://www.int-moth.us/used-mothgear-list/

The SA article says "The rudders are mounted in lifting cassettes; not for adjustment underway, but for beaching and launching. The rake adjustments come via the cassette mounts; instead of normal pintles and gudgeous, the cassettes attach to the boat with uniballs to allow the boat to be properly balanced with angle-of-attack adjustments to the entire rudder and elevator"

What are uniball attachments?

I'm good... got something a little slower, a little easier, and holds more rum

unsure of a boat uniball but I'm well aware of what they are in motor vehicles





usually used as suspension ends.....

Those are what we should see, I imagine there is a stud in the ball that can screw in or out of the transom to adjust rake. My jeep was full of those.

I've seen the bladerider moths down into $8k.

That's because the Mach 2 control system fixed the issues with the Bladerider system, making it easier for the average joe to foil and faster for the racer. You can still have a blast on the bladeriders etc. if you live in the right local; personally I'd rather own an A.

I have a personal goal to break the outright record from Annapolis to Oxford. This would be the perfect weapon for said race, but my money tree is short ~$40K+shipping+spares. I'd rather focus my efforts on shaking loose the existing U.S super cats to come race the Seacart 30.

30 knots Ain't SQUAT, by today's standards ; i can
an Have done Close to that on less than $2,000 worth
of kite-boarding equipment and a home-made kite-board.
Until Sail-rocket came along, the speed record for kites
in water was 55.65 knots.
But Sail-rocket spent an excess of $300,000 to break a
record that a kite-Dude had done on less than $5K worth
of equipment!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/s...ourse-for-speed-sailing-record.html?_r=0

So --- spending $30K to $40K on a cat that only does
30knots on water ; yea --- that's a bit of a Joke to me (.)
sorry -----------------------------------------------NOT !!

I sail on a Hobie-21se, because i can't bring dates on
my kite-board with me ; and YES, i "Like" sailing Cats
as much as most Anyone on this forum !!

Seriously though:"for $40K, you should be pushing 40knots")
or ya Ain't getting much value for your dollar.

Now Let the crap responses roll ; i'm Ready for Ya !!


Bille

If you just want to go fast than it would be much cheaper to pickup a kiteboard or windsurfer ($$/kts ratio).

The cool thing about sailing for me is the competitive element where all out speed is less important for the overall experience.

Very true..... and I would add... the ability to sail with a team mate adds to the complexity and fun factor as well.

Finally.... I have never gotten a request from a kite board or a sailboard to compete in one of our point to point races... Boats make this doable. (now Billie... boats with cub holders..... THAT is what you should take some grief on!)

These boats are another option, a new category of the sport of sailing fast. Apparent wind sailing as it is called.
Also there is the facet of being able to do your 30knts boat speed with 2 people on board in like 12 knts of wind. maybe less.
Many locations have 10-12 knts of wind fairly regularly.
Once the wind is in the 30s then a yacht or a board make much more sense. Although a small cat makes for a real challenge, almost an extreme sport in the 30+ knots wind.

i can buy a motorcycle that will go 100mph for $1000

u can push the sport
or find another one that is "faster"

If you want to go fast on the cheap, get a modern litre sport bike. Less than $15k will push you over 180mph.

Or, get a plane ticket. $400 and you're pushing 500mph.