I don't want to get too far off course here but if I made that comment it was related to getting to the (shorter) Texas 300. I only missed two Tybee 500's - the first one (because I barely knew how to get a sailboat around a race course) and one in the middle that I ground crewed. What caused you to feel like you needed to start making personal accusations?

And sailors deciding in lieu of buoys wasn't the only reason the Tybee 500 declined...but that's, at the very least, another thread.

Jake Give it a rest. Those weren't personal accusations and I'm not going to let you turn this thread into a pissing match as you seem so apt to do with my posts lately. You've made those statements more than once along with other sailors and as I recall they weren't in reference to the GT ,but the Tybee and a possible Worrell comeback.

so the real question would be:

Who is willing to cough up about $1200 and up to 5 days of PTO for a three day distance race sometime in late May 2015?

Dates, locations, and details can be worked out once enough people actually commit to the CONCEPT

I would think you would keep it a pure distance race. Run like the Tybee 500 but just 3-4 days instead. We have plenty of buoy races to chose from. I'm not sure I could get it together by May but I'm interested. I'm sure there is plenty of interest out there that are missing the longer runs.

And even if it were true, why does it matter? You called me out on something irrelevant to the subject matter and then act like I'm putting you out by saying it's not correct. I'm just answering that call by explaining that what you are saying of me isn't true - yet you seem compelled to continue droning about it, hit me again with it, and then hypocritically tell me to "give it a rest".

Since my first Tybee 500 I have always had the opinion that if a a Worrell event came back, I would register immediately and find a way to get two weeks off work. I hold that same opinion today. Can you "give it a rest"?

Congratulations Jake on getting a chance to be a watertriber. This race will change your life. I am so glad Alan is getting his trimaran out. When he did the 1000 mile race he and his mother they got a late start, was hit with heavy winds, and spent many days in a row paddling the boat. No good stories of 175+ mile a day runs.

Be aware Alan's most competitive trait is ability to use strategy correctly. Other racers simply do not make correct decisions after rowing and sailing 36 hours straight. Will be watching your progress next month. I love the fact Alan built a tri with daggerboards in the amas. Totally bad butt.


There is a great deal of discussion about distance racing on the forum. After completing a few 100 milers and this year hope to complete the NC Challenge 300 miler. I look at things differently. I embrace "filters". It is hard as hell to sail up wind into a river that narrows to a canal. It goes against normal sailing to race over oyster beds in the dark. Losing your bearings in the dark is scary as hell on the water. But the part I like is it makes you STRONGER. Few of US use the awesome skills we have spent years acquiring on the buoys race course for anything else. The other aspect that I love is the race what you have mentality. Which is starting to give into race what you build. I would never single hand my Isotope offshore in the Worrell 1000 but find it very gratifying to complete a "challenge."

Just remember your getting stronger.

J.P.Ayers
Isotope 186
Holdyourcourse

Mike, I suspect your opinion is probably a popular one about having a straight shot up the coast and not some other diversions in between. I'm a little undecided on it now but used to feel that way about that kind of race too. The couple of years where the first leg was a trip south around Fowey Rock and back to Hollywood bothered me on some level....but I'm not sure exactly why.

I believe the Cata Cup (in St. Barth) is the only significant event I recall that features both types of racing. It's popular but the location probably has more to do with the popularity of that event.

Why do you guys think that is? Is it a fundamental thing with a distance race? Is it that you don't like to mix buoys and distance because of some mental difference between the two? Most of us enjoy both types of racing but we don't like mixing the two...why is that?

My dad refers to the Tybee 500 like it was climbing a mountain where you hit a new camp at a new altitude every night...and maybe that sensation has something to do with it.

Jake,

Mike and I did the Cata Cup this year and it is a awesome race and location. There was not really any buoy racing just some for a starting line a turning mark. Each race was different and you would get the course at a meeting an hour before each race. One race was around the island and into the coves so the spectators could see us. The courses start at a buoy marked starting line and then to different marks like rock islands, channel markers and buoys placed somewhere. Most the races were around 1 to 2 hours with 1 in the morning then lunch on shore and 1 in the afternoon. Really fun event.

Perhaps distance/adventure racing is more about "testing/pushing your limit" than focusing on strategy?

Surely those pitch-black double-trap screaming death reaches down huge swells was something you'd never have in a buoy race?

Just talked to Dennis Green about the race.Barb Short posted most of this in the OP.It sounds like the plan is open, production and 5 boats makes a class. Four legs with a $300 entry with an effort to keep it affordable (hotels,etc.) where possible for the racers. The magic number he told me was 15 entries. There will be a p.o. box # posted in the future and anyone wanting to commit must send a post card with intent to commit,to that address.
The possibility exists that this race may be expanded in the future to double this distance.
C'mon folks lets make it happen.

Dave answered about the Catacup. One detail is the island is 15 miles long, you can easily sail around it in under 4 hours. The races are raid style and I believe setup how raids are in France and other parts of Europe.

As to mixing buoys and distance racing, they don't really do it in other fleets (VOR, Class 40 etc.) either. Why? Pretty obvious IMO that the tactics are pretty much completely different between W/L buoys racing and distance racing. Yes, those other classes also have crew and sail issues to contend with, but I know personally when I'm in distance racing mode, the start isn't an issue, and i'm thinking about persistent shifts and net breeze and current. While in buoys racing mode, current is pretty far back in my head, #1 priority is pressure and clear air off the start, #2 priority is what is the 3-5 minute shift and where do we want to be on the course to get that first shift and end up on the favored tack?

Todd, we'd love to be there, and might chance our mind come April but I don't want to disappoint anyone. At this point we're out

Oh, I don't presume I speak for everyone or anyone, but in my conversations with the NE teams, most are looking for something bigger. Some would probably do a Tybee 500, but like Jake most of us are ready to put $$ for a Worrell. Unfortunately, sustaining that is unlikely.

Personally, I'm also more excited about a 120+ mile non-stop race here on the Chesapeake than another 300 mile ocean race. We'll be racing at night, facing significant weather challenges and routing challenges that you normally don't see beam reaching up the coast, and for me this is a larger personal challenge.

Jake, good luck on the EC, you've got a sweet ride and the best teammate one could have.

I will be helping to organize it. I got an email and briefly talked to Warren on the phone earlier this week. I have been meaning to follow up but I have been tied up with the 24 Hours of Daytona.

In a nutshell:
Florida 300, which would start in Islamorada, and make stops in Biscayne Key, Singer Island, Vero Beach, then end in Cocoa Beach. This is about 300 miles and the legs are 55 to 80 miles each. The timing would be May but not include Mothers Day. So the potential days would be to rig up on May 18th and race May 19 -22, wrapping up evey thing on the 22nd including a meal and awards event.

Possible Fleets:
All spinnaker boats with crew of two. Any number of fleets a minimum of 5 per fleet
An open class of spinnaker boats again with crew of at least two.
A minimum length of 17 feet with a possible considertaion of F-16 with crew of 2.

Other considerations:
Try to hold entry fee to $300 plus beginning and ending meals, etc

I have another idea I am running by Warren, Chuck and Larry. I don't want make it public unless they think it is worth pursuing.

Singer Island...Really? What a ghetto. Good Gumbo though.

Did you ever make that gumbo you hounded me for the recipe? My wife is making gumbo tomorrow using that same recipe.

Here is a little tour of Singer Island I took with a toy I have been developing:
http://youtu.be/vHRbqyPJO0I

By the way, the Tybee 500 Jupiter stop is technically on Singer Island. Jupiter Island is the next island North. In Florida, about every three miles laterally is a new town. There is no town of Singer Island but there is a town of Jupiter. Palm Beach Island, Singer Island then Jupiter island.

I did, but it wasn't as good as yours.
There will be a gumbo dinner on that stop, I hope.
I got a couple of quads also,but can't afford the stable stuff so just got an acrobatic one (Armattan ,which I crash alot).Cool stuff.

So are we talking about a race for 2014 or 2015?

I'm about to start a new job and won't have any vacation time likely, but I'd love to have something to motivate me again to sail.

Team GRG might be able to actually make it this year....put us in the likely column for 2014.

why doesn't everyone just glom on to the EC this year and score it as a sub-division?

Crap, it's already organized, publicized, and energized. All ya'll got to do is show the f up.

Once I figure out some robotic beach trolley (1400 lbs is a little big to push around) for the boat (and a crew) I'd sign up...