A young North American guy winning a World Hobie 16 Championship would go a long way in promoting the sport over here.
Think of how many young People Tiger Woods attracted to the game of Golf (maybe Tiger is not the best example of a role model)
Matt ,you must still be adjusting to the time zone change.Your interested in "keeping the sport alive ,but no interest in getting the top guys better".Most of those top guys you are talking about are the ones keeping this sport healthy.How cool would it be to have a Kid like,Trey James or Ben Brown or Kat Porter,featured in a Sailing World Article or front page of there local news paper.Winning attracts attention.
Mike I like your thinking,"how do we get better".Yes it would be great to sail In big fleets all the time,but that is not realistic.
One thing Sail Canada is doing in prep for the Pan Ams is putting on Sailing Camps for the prospective Pan Am teams.I have had the privilege of going to them and have found them very effective.One of our Canadian guys has had his best result ever at a North American,s.I have and am still willing to share the training program they have set forth.

That may be a way to attract existing sailors to the Hobie 16 or other multi, but I do not think its going to do much to attract new sailors.

It's all related, I agree with that. I have zero issues with people who choose to focus on one goal over the other (growth vs. performance), because we need to improve both.

This question(s?) also racks the brain trust at US Sailing, literally because they are required to improve both.

Mike

No it wouldn't. In fact, it would probably drive the ordinary folks away since they would rationalize that they could never win. The only person in NA who realistically has a chance of doing well at the worlds wasn't there (Enrique). While I like Enrique and admire him as a sailor (and I've known him for almost 30 years) - he really hasn't done much to support the class and the ordinary sailor - except when he's paid to do it.


No and no. The people that keep the sport healthy are the ones like Bruce Krupke and Ron Holm - the guys in the middle of the pack whose enthusiasm is infectious and who keep introducing new people into the sport.

They don't have to win to attract attention. The fact that Ben and Kat - and other youths like the Larson twins - went to AUS to compete at a high level event like the worlds attracts attention.

You need to read Stuart Walker's book "The Code of Competition" and learn that it's not the top guys that are the caretakers of the sport - it's the middle of the pack, and especially the guy that comes in last that you need to take care of. For when the last place person gets discouraged and quits - there's someone new that comes in last - and the cycle starts all over again.

The HCANA already has a mechanism for racing improvement - the Guest Expert Program. Unfortunately, it's been underutilized of late. Maybe that's because most people who attend regattas aren't there to become the pointy end of the spear, but are there to socialize and have a good time, without the pressure of "performing".

Hobie Alter once said, "[D]o not let the good sailors take control of your class. They'll ruin it. So I had a couple of problems with guys that were really tight on the rules, and really weren't well-liked. I told them, "You know what, when you go up to get your trophy, you're going to have 5 people clap for you rather than a hundred. Is that really how you want it?"

I haven't read that book but I completely agree with this statement.

Removing my post. Apologies if it came across wrong.

Never implied that top talent doesn't sail in the Hobie 16 fleet.

One other thought, the point about sailing in other fleets is really important. If you look at someone like Ravi who won F16 nationals and was fourth at F18 Americas he regularly races big events in laser radials and 420s to get big fleet experience. Lots of us in the F18 fleet also came from other dinghies and collegiate sailing where there is a huge emphasis on starts, roundings, etc.

Thanks Jeff.

I do agree with your second post. One of our top US H16 sailors (who did well at a fairly recent Worlds) was Bob Merrick, who (as you know) came not only from the traditional route, but took home an Olympic medal from Sydney. So, there's a lot to be said for that. It did, however, take him a few years (and at least one season of frostbiting in H14s) to get to the top of the H16 class.

Matt makes some great points about how to keep classes healthy. No one wants to be the first place boat in a five boat fleet if they could be racing 100.

Mike

So I need to look back ,the original question was why do the North Americans not do better and what needs to be done to improve that.I think I have tried to address that,not sure how this has been taken off the tracks?Thanks Jeff for adding something that is related,and at least agreeing with one thing I suggested.
Matt I don,t need to read Stuart Walkers books,he is way to technical for me.You don,t need to read any books to adhere to good sportsmanship and understand that concept..I agree with you whole heartedly on that issue.In fact Paul Elvestrom was preaching that message probably even before Stuart Walker.if I can paraphrase he said " if you win,but in doing so have made more enemies then friends,then you really have not won anything".

Madge,

I don't think you can discount the experience of starting in a big fleet. I'm a decent sailor but when I get in a big fleet I do NOT start well and it is really costly. It's something that's really hard to practice without doing it frequently.

Jake

In the place standings, yes, but not nearly as costly as tearing up all those cool graphics on the side of your boat!

But you're right: the solid start gets you out of all that crap air and gives you options for choosing good lanes to the top mark.

A second row start pretty much limits you to whatever you can get (hardly a winning strategy)

Perhaps the biggest reason for trouble in a big fleet start is you often don't know who your neighbors are (right up at the line) so it's a bit harder to play any sort of tactic to advantage.

Sure, if they're all top players, everyone is pretty certain how others will respond. But toss in a bunch of mid-fleeters and (my personal favorite) marshmallows who parked on the line 30 seconds early and it's anyone's guess...

I can't remember what regatta it was but (as the perennial marshmallow that I am) it was almost a joy to watch Robbie and JC chase each other "full-tilt" in and around our glob of slow/stalled boats about 4 seconds before the gun.

[quote=Jake]Madge,

I don't think you can discount the experience of starting in a big fleet. I'm a decent sailor but when I get in a big fleet I do NOT start well and it is really costly. It's something that's really hard to practice without doing it frequently.

Then Charter a Laser and head down to Florida next year and enter The Laser Mid-Winters Regatta and get practice starting with a 60+ boat Fleet.You won,t Win the Event but you will get practice starting in a Big Fleet.
I am going to beat my own Drum here.I sail and practice in a Fleet of one up here in Thunder Bay.I have competed in a couple of Hobie 16 North Americans and one Worlds way back in the 80's.Now I have never won any big Event,but one of my strong points is my starting.In fact I had a Compliment from Sue Korz that she said she did not want to start next to me because I was getting such good starts.So take it for what it is worth,I really believe you don,t need to have 50 boats on the line to practice getting good starts.Wether there is 5,50 or 150 boats on the line it still comes down to beating the two boats on either side of you.
Best advice I ever got was from Miles Woods at the 1987 Hobie 18 North Americans,he said " getting a good start in a big fleet,is like going to a good show in a big City,get there early if you want a seat".In other words you better be pretty good at parking your boat for a long time on the line and knowing how to defend that spot.
Which leads me to the earlier point on how to get better.How many racers will actually have the Time or motivation to just go sail up to a mark ,park and sit there,or back up and go back to it.There is a whole lot of drills you can do on your own that will make you a better starter.Get three boats together and have a really short line.How about this one,have your wife or Girl friend sitting on a dock ,blow a whistle when you have crossed an imaginary starting line(My Wife just loves this (: ).Great for finding out how close you are to the line,also makes it really important to have a transit on long starting lines.
I mean what else is there,if you just rely on starting in big fleets in Catamarans to try to get better then it probably is not going to happen.
I am not trying to pretend to know anything,heck I will listen to anyone.If anyone else has ideas on how to get better I am all ears.
One other point Enrique,s name came up.I have nothing but good things to say about him.Any time I have approached him with questions he has been very receptive.Did,t cost me any money.
Jake read this,might help.
http://centerofeffort01.blogspot.ca/2012/08/size-matters-tips-for-starting-

Right. I'm sure Matt's only 90% serious about that, or he wouldn't have been at the event instead of doing something with newbies...

Mike

Darn ,I wish I would have brought that up.

There's a whole lot more to being able to start in a big fleet than parking your boat. I can do this pretty well and I practice it often. Mix in a little current, be on the line and unable to see either end of it, get hit a couple of times and try to keep your focus and your position. Practicing against a buoy is good - but there's more to a big fleet start than being able to park your boat and hold your position.

Yes your are so right,and thanks for that great advice.

Being on the pin boat at the worlds gave me a front row seat (literally) to watch various starting techniques, especially under black flag conditions. (We gave the fleet one P flag (Blue Peter in British/Aussie parlance) start before going to black - most of the Blue Peter starts were a mob scene. Out of the 60+ start sequences we ran, we only got off a few Blue Peter starts. After a while, we just started off with the black flag. All the finals races started under black.)

Blaine Dodds and Jason Waterhouse had particularly interesting starting techniques that didn't involve sitting in one place - but that's the subject of a Hotline article and won't be revealed here.

Lest we forget, a North American team did place 5th - Jason Hess and Irene Abascal from Guatemala. There were no Puerto Ricans or Mexicans there, who are traditionally strong in Hobie 16s. There was only one Canadian team.

Another area where we're weak is kinetics. We just haven't been taught to ooch and pump - but the top guys are doing it a lot.

I didn't mean to offend you if that's what I did...

Nope,you did not offend me.In fact lesson learnt,don,t give advice if the person does not ask for any.
Enough fun for one day.

I'll assume that's more sarcasm, because I didn't see anything personally aimed at you in his posts. I am not picking sides at all, you're both making valid points; I just don't see any personal attacks coming from Matt.

Mike