Jake, F 18s and Nacra 17s shall be included. The N 17 just won the Texel Race on corrected time, and that speaks for itself.

I have a clue who this jaybird is, and he is really out of the loop. I just spent a high energy weekend covering the Challenge Cup, and being on the water with many of those which jbird mentioned, but I never see him enter ANY races unless they happen in his own backyard, much - less spend a week on the race committee during a national - level championship.

I hold no grudge because I can not make myself angry or spiteful. My SOARS account is my evidence, and I now consider this matter closed.

When the MHC completes its proposal we will be back with the details. We are hoping to finally resolve this at the annual meeting in September before the Lipton Cup.

Jbird, if you only really knew the truth, then you would know that PHRF boats have been invited for years now thanks to the MHC's work.

Do you even know the real history of the MHC or the Safety Recommendations? Will your name ever be engraved on the Logan Emelet trophy? Do you have a GYA Multihull Rating Certificate, Jay? They are required to enter.

Cruising boats have sailed in years past, and are always welcomed, but we asked for cats this year because the MHC Chair wanted to. We are also looking to add small tris as a Gulf Coast Challenge.

I doubt that we will be sending any small dpn boats out to the Gulfport sea buoy, but the cats can't sail in the ditch, so they will have to leave the Mobile sea buoy to port, thence to a Finish Line inside Pensacola Bay. PHRF boats will sail the traditional course.

Bert,

I am Jay Klassen. You know damn well who I am.

Your participation in races is the reason why, as I've stated several times, I as well as numerous other multihulls west of you will not participate if your involvement continues.

It is time to step aside and let the new blood in, Rice. Maybe then the multihulls can then gain traction within the GYA.

And outside your control, you not being on that committee at the time, I obtained a certificate nearly as soon as I bought the boat.

I do like the concerted efforts to add beachcats to existing events, which in my partially senile mind would bring synergies to both parties... the beachcats for having an event that they don't have to create from scratch, and the organizers for having greater turnout..?

Thank you for all who "hoe the row" to the benefit of the rest of us whiners sailors

I do understand the nature of this race and I would like to understand the OA concerns with regards to item #3. I've got a fair amount of incremented distance racing and endurance style (multiple overnights) small multihull racing experience in some pretty crazy stuff. Taking my boat well out of sight of land isn't a concern to me (obviously, well prepared). Competing in a race like this on a beachcat does offer more weather exposure but the additional speed offsets most of that risk....and there is exceptionally little difference between the capabilities of a modern 18 footer and the 20 foot boats.

Back when I was building IOR boats one feature of the electric panel was a variable resistor connected to nav lights. Nighttime shenanigans.

I second Jakes comments on the F18 being included. I've sailed the G2P race over 15 times on monos and my Reynolds 33. I've also done the Tybee 500 - 7 times on F18's and N20's. Also add in two Texas 300's, on N20, and F20 (btw the texas 300 rhumb line takes us 30+ miles offshore at times.

The F18 is fully capable of doing the G2P, in fact it's a cake walk compared to the first two legs of the GT300, and the last leg of the T500.

I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is and do it on the F18 next year - officially or "unofficially"...

As I said above:

such things are determined at the GYA meetings, usually the Winter meeting in January. Please attend the GYA meeting and make the case for your class, make a presentation, just like Hodges said. Talk to DJ, he's the Multihull Chairman. Chat here isn't getting the GYA ear.

GYA is your standard run of the mill regional sailing authority...
CBYRA is my run of the mill regional sailing authority.

15 years ago we faced the same issue.... The solution, the beachcat sailors formed a handicap racing class and joined the YRA. We were separate from the then cruising multihull class CMA class. (turns out the absence of a head was the only requirement the beachcats could not find a work around for in racing under the CMA class rules)

Still... each OA running an event makes a decision on what classes they will offer a start to... Just because you are a member of the YRA does not let you force your way into an event.
Clearly there is a difference between the two types of vessels and common sense argues that the YRA and the OA manage each class differently.

Simple solution... organize the beach cats... go to the meeting and work it out.

No, but it should be getting the ears of the people who will be attending the meeting ;-)

It's not reasonable for me to travel 9 hours by car one way for that. Sounds like a neat race and I would be counted as tentative/likely (depending largely on what the Florida X00 race does for 2015)

Same here, I'll drive 10 hours to race. I'm not driving 10 hours to attend a meeting...

It's pretty simple, adopt the same safety requirements as the Tybee 500/GT 300 and invite the same boats. These standards are proven and available on line.

We are not asking for chase boats, ground support, or anything else that is not being provided to the mono fleet.

while it is undoubtedly true that a properly equipped and staffed F18 is capable of nothing short of transoceanic voyages (didn't they cross the Atlantic in a modded N20?), for the OA it will be a discussion regarding the boat's design criteria and the anticipated crew abilities.

Correct me (I can't find the official source for the ratings. I got this from ISAF), but are they as follows?

Cat 0 - Trans-oceanic races, including races which pass through areas in which air or sea temperatures are likely to be less than 5 degrees Celsius other than temporarily, where yachts must be completely self-sufficient for very extended
periods of time, capable of withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies without the expectation of outside assistance.

Cat 1 - Races of long distance and well offshore, where yachts must be completely self-sufficient for extended periods of time, capable of withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies without the expectation of outside assistance.

Cat 2 -Races of extended duration along or not far removed from shorelines or in large unprotected bays or lakes, where a high degree of self-sufficiency is required of the yachts.

Cat 3 - Races across open water, most of which is relatively protected or close to shorelines.

Cat 4 - Short races, close to shore in relatively warm or protected waters normally held in daylight.
____

I suspect that F18s and other beachcats are rated Cat 2, right?

If I were the OA, I would seek a definition of "Not Far Removed from Shorelines" to see if my projected course falls within that definition. Is the 3NM line considered the limit of "not far from shore"?

I'd probably want a summary of entrant's sailing experience in waters/conditions similar to what you'd expect for your regatta (and a strongly worded release). This would be primarily to discourage those without any prior coastal experience..

Do the safety rules defer to USCG equipment for near-shore vessels? Nav lights, safety equipment, dewatering, etc.

Perhaps building a cogent case that the F18s meet or exceed these "expectations" by the OA would ease their minds (and insurance underwriters) to allow for participation?

Is there really a shortage of distance races for beachcats or is it that we just don't like to be told no? If we do get a start for this race how many will keep attending once the new wears off?

Personally I'd much rather run in an "unofficial" class anyway, fight the power! :-)

Dave nails the key question...

Is this a one off race with a handful of boats?
Is this a race you want to do year in and year out?
How many distance racers do you actually have?

On the Chesapeake.... we are happy to pull of one event a year with CBYRA... not enough interest for more then one event.

Those categories were primarily written around monohulls...I suspect if you looked at the detailed requirements for each you would find beach cats come up short (for example, Cat 3 require a lifesling). In short, they are completely inapplicable to beach cat racing.

Now we are back to talking business.

When I took this case to the OA as part of solving the riddle for Mr. Hodges, we also asked for beach cat inclusion. There was misunderstanding between DPN scoring and PHRF scoring by the OA, who is always in the right. They had not made provisions at Southern for the sudden inclusion. We are preparing a proposal that will include "Ocean worthy" catamarans, including F 18s, N 17s, and the 20 footers.

Thanks to Mark, we have opened the door for a brief GYA history lesson. Bryant Murray, Brian Waters, and I founded the Northwest Florida Multihull Association, under NAMSA, because Stan Pape and others had already created the Greater New Orleans Multihull Association. Both of our efforts were in support of Open Class racing and the North American Multihull Association due to the Hobie Cat protocol that regulated the Hobie only events). NAMSA was led by a retired attorney, Richard Blanchard and his wife, Betty. The Honorable Richard Blanchard designed the current rating system for the US Sailing yardstick and handed that over to Darlene Hobock and US Sailing when he retired. That was nearly forty years ago...

In 1990 a dear friend and fellow sailor, John Oerting was commodore of the GYA and established the Challenge Cup and the GYA MHC during his watch. I served as the founding chairman until 2012 when my health went south. Mike Pedersen took the helm and kept us rolling.

BTW, the GYA is the largest YA in US Sailing and is working to become established as its own US Sailing Area, levered by the strength of voting numbers. Guys like Harry Chapman and Walter Chamberlain have established worthy programs US Sailing depends on today.

The Multihull Council has more lobbying power today, and we are doing much for the multihull sailors. Jay is pencil whipping me for some unknown reason due to his lack of involvement and out of dislike for me personally. His mis - information is now making matters worse, and I see no benefit in continuing this discussion under this thread title.

The next time I address this case will be when the MHC has drafted its proposal and we submit it to our fresh contacts at Southern Yacht Club. This will be done in late July/early August for presentation to their BoD during our Fall meeting. We do not have the time to wait until the winter meeting due to promotion, marketing, and final planning - earlier than later.

We had two ER cases from the heat this past weekend during the annual Challenge Cup, one seizure, and Benz Faget became weakened while prepping his boat and made a trip to the ER, himself. He was bleeding from the hand and pale as ghost just before they took him in from the yc.

I share this in forewarning: We are not as young as we once were; therefore, please pace yourselves and remain hydrated, especially on hot white beach sand. Seeking lawns and shade, when possible, would be the recommendation from our Safety Committee. Save the alcohol until the sun crosses the yardarm.

Catman, Did you work on the mini tonners, which appear on a comeback, or did you work with Charlie Morgan and the Heritage Series of one tonners?

Very cool stuff. We had a sharp little quarter tonner on Pensacola Bay in the forty - two boat shootout.

Bert,

You are not the GYA Multihull Council chairman. You are the secretary and when I had concerns about the safety equipment requirements for the GtoP race being excessive for the PHRF multihulls, I took my concerns to David Johnson who is the chairman. I asked him to address those concerns on my behalf as I felt that was the proper channel to go through. Unfortunately from my perspective, you created the "riddle" as your e-mails to the OA indicated that I needed to grow up and move on based on your belief that I needed to have my crew tethered to jacklines with each having their own EPIRB or PLB worn at all times. I ended up contacting the OA directly to get this resolved. He admitted to me that they had not even read the recommendations and had just checked off all the boxes without understanding the application of the guidelines. I will follow up with the OA to summarize how I think the GYA multihull safety recommendations should be applied (not mandated) for this event for PHRF multihulls. I also believe there needs to be a clear distinction between what the race organizers anticipated as a multihull class. It will be my recommendation to the OA that PHRF rated multihulls be defined as those over 20' in length with a permanent cabin for the shelter of the crew if needed and auxiliary power.

I am in no way opposed to beach cats sailing under a DPN handicap participating in this event but I believe a formal proposal to the OA on how that can be done needs to come from David Johnson. I would ask that you stand down and act only in an advisory role to David unless he asks you otherwise.

Respectfully Yours,

Bob Hodges

Bob, watch your e mail... I'll pick this up there.