| Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#275900 10/23/14 07:48 AM 10/23/14 07:48 AM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M. OP
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | This link will redirect to the AC45 class rule download pdf.
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#276016 11/01/14 04:47 AM 11/01/14 04:47 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,584 +31NL Tony_F18
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Posts: 2,584 +31NL | The AC45 class rule makes no mention of foiling.
I cannot remember, are rudder elevators allowed in this class now? http://www.americascup.com/en/news/...first-season-of-Americas-Cup-racing.html Foiling AC45s confirmed for America’s Cup World Series The best sailors in the world will be flying above the water at speed when the America’s Cup World Series begins in the summer of 2015. Champion sailors Ben Ainslie, Dean Barker, Franck Cammas, Nathan Outteridge, Max Sirena and Jimmy Spithill will lead their respective teams into the first stage of the competition for the most storied trophy in international sport. Commercial Commissioner Harvey Schiller says that he also expects at least one additional team will be joining as a late entry. The America’s Cup World Series runs for two seasons in 2015 and 2016, ahead of the America’s Cup Qualifiers, Playoffs and Finals in 2017. | | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#276018 11/01/14 08:58 AM 11/01/14 08:58 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | If you haven't seen it yet, this month's Sailing World has a good article on the full foiling GC32 class racing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wji28IFANA Those guys are using soft sails, and still going plenty fast. I've got to wonder how much money (and time, and ground crew, and storage space) it would save the next AC62 class if they would just switch back to soft sails too.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Timbo]
#276019 11/01/14 12:08 PM 11/01/14 12:08 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | I've got to wonder how much money (and time, and ground crew, and storage space) it would save the next AC62 class if they would just switch back to soft sails too. To me that's kinda like telling the Formula 1 teams that they are going to have to use VW aircooled flat four engines from a Beetle next year. Sure it's cheaper, but really doesn't deliver like you'd want the pinnacle of a sport to do so. I'm sure the handling of the wing has some big costs. It'd be interesting to see what the actual difference in cost would be compared to soft sails. I'm sure it'd be a huge pile of cash, but percentage wise, it probably wouldn't be that impressive of a comparison. I was just talking to my brother earlier today about car racing. It'd be fun if there were an unlimited form of racing. Any fuel, any configuration, any weather, no rules. Not even safety rules for the equipment. That would drive some innovation!
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#276024 11/02/14 11:14 AM 11/02/14 11:14 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | From the after reports of the last AC, they said the ground crew just to handle the wing, step it every day, take it down every night, store it, tweak it, etc. was about 100 people...for each team! They said that was the single biggest expense other than building the boats.
I'm just wondering how much faster it makes the boats? It's got to be a lot heavier than soft sails, so you have to offset the weight of the wing vs. the added performance it brings. Where is the break over in terms of performance?
Seems the smaller foiling cats go pretty fast with soft sails!
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Timbo]
#276025 11/02/14 12:46 PM 11/02/14 12:46 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Timbo
You get one wing... it does not wear out... you paste on replacement panels if they tear .. So with soft sails... they change shape... So you are constantly adjusting the settings to manage.. Bottom line... you have to replace the entire sail often.. All told... the net costs are about the same...(Source ACC sail maker) The new rule is not just stupid loyalty to cutting edge technology (like the wing)...
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#276028 11/03/14 09:08 AM 11/03/14 09:08 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | I'm sure it'd be a huge pile of cash uh, hello? are we trying to make the AC something for the broke masses? I would certainly hope not... This uber-spending to develop the technology is a good replacement for our shelved space program. I think we are actually witnessing some "trickle down" from all this (G-32, Phantom, C-cat, A-cat, Gunboat, etc)... perhaps moreso than the equivalent economic theory.
Jay
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#276031 11/03/14 10:28 AM 11/03/14 10:28 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Yeah, the C class cats were trying foiling and hard wing sails what, about 15 years ago?
I think the aircraft design guys at Airbus are working with one of the AC teams too.
And I thought I read that Ellison got some help from Boeing last AC, just as they 'turned the boat around' i.e. started winning, after installed something that made it possible to foil upwind?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: AC62 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Timbo]
#276032 11/03/14 10:43 AM 11/03/14 10:43 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | I think you're right Timbo. It had something to do with the foil adjustment system that your planes are using. I believe they finally "figured" out how to use it effectively and started their domination..
And while the concepts of aero- and hydro- foils started in small boats (moths, C-cats), you can't deny how much technical talent the AC put to figuring these things out... ESPECIALLY when the rules were designed to keep boats from doing just that (foiling).
Jay
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