The term "barging" isn't in the racing rules at all. Nevertheless, the hail "you're barging" is often heard at the starting line, and commonly used in later discussions.

So, what exactly is "barging"? A boat "barges" when she tries to claim room to which she is not entitled at a starting mark. The origin of the term refers to a boat trying to stick her nose in at the "signal barge".

The rules surrounding barging may seem complicated at first, but they're really quite simple. This is one of the instances where RRS 18 "Mark-Room" does not apply. Take a look at the preamble to Part 2, Section C "At marks and obstructions". It says "Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water or at its anchor line from the time boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them". Provided that

1. the mark is surrounded by navigable water (which is almost always the case), and
2. boats are approaching the line to start, then

rule 18 (and 19 and 20) does not apply.

Therefore, an outside boat is not obligated to give an inside boat mark-room at the start. When boats overlapped on the same tack approach a signal boat to start, they are governed by RRS 11 "On the same tack, overlapped", not rule 18. As long as she complies with rules 14, 15, 16, and 17, a leeward boat can pinch a windward boat off at the mark, forcing the other boat to drop behind or peel away.

There are a couple of caveats. First, the leeward boat (L) has to "close the door" on the windward boat (W) in time. If L changes course to shut W out, then (in accordance with RRS 16.1) she must give W room to keep clear. L cannot force W into the mark. L must head up early enough that W can turn away and avoid the mark in a seamanlike way. If L waits until W's bow is under the mark (or so close that she can't tack), then L may not luff up.

Secondly, if L has closed the door in time and W "barges in" anyway, L must attempt to avoid contact per RRS 14. L must bear away and let W in. Her only recourse is to protest.

I'll try to put together some illustrative diagrams and post them when I have time.

I hope that helps,
Eric Rasmussen
US Sailing Certified Judge
Chair, SAYRA Appeals Committee

" A good crew on L will not let W in there, but the only legal way to keep W out is to luff with enough time such that W can't get overlapped with the stern of the signal boat. If that happens, L has allowed W space to which W was not entitled, but at that point has no recourse (especially not luffing W into the signal boat)."

From Mike's post... I was unaware that overlap to the Signal Boat. I thought it was overlap on the clear ahead boat..

So if the signal boat is longer than the boats sailing, an overlap could be established by W if they cross the stern of the signal boat, even before they reach the stern of L?

Don't think of it in terms of "overlapped with" the signal boat. Instead, concentrate on "room to keep clear" of the signal boat. When L changes course to shut W out, she needs to give W enough space that W can avoid the mark (and meet her other obligations) by maneuvering promptly in a seamanlike way. Certainly, if W already has her bow under the stern of the signal boat, L has waited too long. It may, however, also be too late even before W reaches the signal boat. There's no set distance or time; L simply must give W enough space to peel away in the existing conditions.

man, all that thinking makes my head hurt. But very good information to consider.

Different application of the word overlap.
Stealing images from the web.
Here Leeward is warning windward off in time and by sailing close-hauled is demonstrating the intent to not allow windward in.




Here RED allowed Green to get to position 2. Not necessarily overlapped with R/C in our defined sense of overlap but Green doesn't have a legal out.

so if Green at position 2 has no way to keep clear without hitting the starting boat, Red position 2 has to give way, correct?

If Red at position 1 had luffed harder (pointing right at starboard corner of starting boat) she could have possibly peeled Green off of the starting area? wait... it says Green had the overlap on Red at position 1

Everything Eric is saying lines up with my view on this as well. I used "overlap" as a loose term as mentioned. "Barging" is also not a real term for this issue, but most racers will know what this means.

What I find interesting is that many top rules experts have published articles on this subject. While most talk in terms that we are here, there is at least one that says if L let's W in, L can protest even if there's no contact. I believe there was a case or appeal about that, ruling as Eric and I state here (L will lose the protest), but I can't find it at the moment.

BTW, thanks for posting those diagrams.

Mike

What if W ignores all indicators there will be no room for her and decides to take her chances because L is obligated to let her in to avoid contact. Based on what I'm reading here W's chances are pretty good they would be exonerated in a protest. All W has to do is sell that they where pinned by the RC and had an overlap on L. Clearly barging isn't an automatic loser.

I see you speak wisdom, o barge-ed master?

grass-hoppa seek knowredge...

If L has closed the door on W in time, but W goes in anyway and L has to take avoiding action, then W breaks RRS 11. If protest committee finds those facts, then L should prevail in the hearing.

I hope that helps,
Eric

so when is that? before overlap I presume?

When L changes course to shut W out, she needs to give W enough space that W can avoid the mark (and meet her other obligations) by maneuvering promptly in a seamanlike way. If so, L has met her obligation under RRS 16.1.

This diagram doesn't illustrate barging. It shows a case where the signal boat is not a mark (the mark is the buoy to the left). Here, the boat is an obstruction and inside boats are entitled to room. Note that this is a very unusual exception -- I have never seen a starting line set this way.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Thank you. I thought it was just me.

I'm still struggling with "shutting the door" and "let them in". In my mind if I'm on a perfect close hauled drift to the boat I've shut the door ages ago but I can also see where W could argue I (L) let them in. The terms "let them in" and "shut the door" just seem way to open to interpretation. As a judge what do you expect to hear when these two arguments are being made? I know you've said once W is pinned by the boat it's game over W wins. I'm trying to avoid a he said she said and if I have to go to the room I want to kill it!

Yup, that's my bad. I liked the picture and didn't take the time to understand what they were demonstrating.
My apologies for confusing the issue.

I think that the advice here would be to start collecting witnesses. You do that by loudly hailing your intent as indicated in the first drawing.

Yeah, I was over here going "wubudu, what?" with regards to that diagram. I would say that if the orange boat was the starting boat the the starting end of the line, the red boats have established intent and direction to leave no room at the orange boat, the green boats would need to avoid both reds and the start boat.

That diagram seems to indicate that the flag is the right end of the starting line and that orange boat happens to be some race committee just sitting there (which I have seen before...usually in sloppy beer can races where one of the mark boats loosely tie up to the committee boat.

Which does beg an interesting question. If the sailing instructions don't indicate how to treat this boat that is moored up to the official starting boat (as an extension of that boat or whatever), how do you treat it?

"Shut the door" is not a term used in the rules, but rather a convenient metaphor (probably from the days of door-to-door salesmen -- you had to shut it before they got a "foot in the door"). What I mean by it is that L, when she changes course to the point where there is no room for W to pass between her and the mark/committee boat, at that time W must have an opportunity to avoid the mark (by slowing down or passing it on the other side. If so (and L thereafter holds her course), then L has "shut the door" on W. If L waits until W can no longer avoid the mark by slowing down or turning away before changing course, then L has "let her in".

When talking to sailors about starting tactics, I often advise that they take a transit on the layline to the signal boat. That way, they know where to turn close-hauled in order to shut out windward boats (without getting shut out themselves). Provided you don't let them get clear ahead of you, you can "close the door" on windward boats well back of the signal boat.

I hope that helps,
Eric

The people on the race committee boat make excellent witnesses. They are impartial and have an up-close view of the incident (you know they are watching )

This rule seems to say if someone camps behind the start boat making a little headway they own the start

This used to be problematic, but was addressed with a change the last time the rules were updated. The definition of mark says "...an object attached accidentally to a mark is not part of it", meaning that a chase boat intentionally tied up to the signal boat is part of the mark. The definition used to say "...attached temporarily or accidentally...", which led to the problem you're concerned about.

Note that this wording of the definition allows race committee to use a "barging buoy" without worrying about how to write the sailing instruction. A "barging buoy" is an object that RC attaches to the stern of the committee boat to keep boats a little farther away. This reduces the chance of collision with (and damage to) the committee boat -- which helps reassure signal boat owners.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Well you have never seen Randy Smyth back up a boat into position.

Chris Christensen used to sneak in around the bow of the signal vessel and sail stern-first behind the line. Chris was pretty sick in heavy pressure by doing this and pulling the trigger while the creepers were trying to dig out of the hole.

Unless one had worked on their approach angle and pulled the trigger without fear, then Chris would be gone!!!

Randy is so smooth he can gain an open start, in clear air, with no chance of rules entanglement. He is always on point with his timing and can really jump out with YO!, his F 25 C.

Here is a diagram of a classic barging situation. The boats are approaching the mark (which is a signal boat) to start.



Rules 18 and 19 do not apply between Blue and Yellow. Yellow is not entitled to room at the mark. Yellow is obligated to keep clear of Blue by rule 11.

Blue is not changing course in this diagram, so rule 16.1 does not apply to her. There's no room for Yellow between Blue and the mark, so she has to turn away.

And here's a scenario where the leeward boat "shuts the door" in time.



At positions 2 and 3, Blue changes course and is obligated by RRS 16.1 to give Yellow room to keep clear. Yellow responds promptly, meeting her obligation to keep clear of Blue, but has to turn away to miss the mark.

Here I've drawn Blue shutting the door on Yellow in time, but Yellow goes below the mark anyway.



Yellow breaks RRS 11. Blue takes avoiding action as required by RRS 14 and protests. Blue should win this protest.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Here's a diagram where the leeward boat does not "close the door" on the windward boat.



In this scenario, Blue does not act to "close the door" on Yellow. She holds her course and Yellow takes advantage of the room given. Neither boat breaks a rule. Blue should lose this protest.

And, here's a drawing that shows the leeward boat "closing the door" too late.



When Blue changes course, she does not give Yellow room to keep clear. Blue breaks RRS 16.1. Yellow breaks RRS 31 (Touching a Mark) but is exonerated under RRS 64.1(a). Yellow should win this protest.

I hope that helps,
Eric

This rule interpretation seems to be, If I'm on starboard and I have my bow tucked behind the start boat and he is backing from in front of the start boat with water to go where ever he wants he must stay clear of me as does the rest of the fleet

That all helps a ton Eric! I still want to find the case I'm thinking of, it might be a case where L actually pushed W into the boat.

Didn't they do a weird start mark like that at Tradewinds or one of those winter races a year or so ago?

Eric beat me to the answer about stuff tied to a mark. What I want to know is how to write the SIs such that a barging buoy is NOT part of the boat, which most of us are used to. As the rule is written, if you hit a barging buoy, you hit the starting boat, and because that is part of the definitions, it can't be changed by the SIs.

I brought this up with US Sailing during the change, and the person I asked said not to worry, the intent wasn't to lock it down so tightly. I have yet to see SIs that change it (at least, not properly).

I asked about it again at the meeting again in FL last year, and was advised that it was their intent to lock it down, and they didn't think anyone would mind, but encouraged me to submit a request to change the rule.

The problem was that the way the old rule was written, the issue was the same but in reverse. SIs couldn't make the bouy part of the boat (legally), which is desired with really big, expensive and slowly maneuvering boats.

For me, the goal is to make sure the signal boat doesn't get hit, not the buoy. Our cats are maneuverable enough to usually stay away from the signal boat with a gentle reminder of a buoy out there. Those buoys tend to move around an awful lot, and I don't think it's especially fair to penalize a small boat for contacting the buoy.

Besides, even though I'm usually not looking behind me nearly as much as Eric gives me credit for (too much else to focus on at the actual line), I did see at least one boat hit my barging buoy on Sunday. Life is way too short to go to the room over that, even though I doubt anyone else could have seen it. He should have been protested for barging anyway...

Mike

There are two rules that bear on this situation. RRS 22.3 states "a boat moving astern through the water by backing a sail shall keep clear of one that is not". If the boat clear ahead is "backing a sail", then she must keep clear. If she is drifting backwards without backing a sail, then the other boat must keep clear (RRS 12).

Second, a boat's "course" is the direction she is pointing or moving. When the boat ahead stops moving forward and starts moving backward (without backing a sail), she is changing course and must give the boat astern room to keep clear (per RRS 16.1). That boat must react to the ahead boat's course change promptly and in a seamanlike way to keep clear.

As you note, SI's may not change the definitions. The barging buoy is part of the mark. You really don't want to change that. If you could, then there's an argument that the buoy is an obstruction and that inside boats are entitled to room. Then the buoy, which is intended to reduce barging, actually promotes it.

If you really, really want to allow boats to touch the barging buoy (which I still don't recommend), I suggest the SI's simply change the penalty (to no penalty).

I hope that helps,
Eric

BRILLIANT!!!

Come out with me some time, Eric. With the waves and current we see, you'll be stunned how much that mark moves. For small boats, especially Optis, the line holding the buoy can be as long as the racing boats. The buoys are often so small that it would be tough to know if you (or another boat) actually hit it.

Not fair, and certainly not my goal with small boats.


Mike

I missed the "backing a sail" part and thought that the rules had been modified to take away the opportunity to back down on the starting line. With a decent breeze, I can move backwards at a pretty good sustainable speed without physically backing a sail. While the timing and handling would be tricky (but could be learned), is this to say that I could back down on the start line right by the committee boat (without backing a sail) and expect everyone to have to avoid me?

You might want to experiment with other tying attachments that move less, such as a towing bridle; or stiffening up the line(s) with flexible pipe; or even hanging the buoy from a pole. With Optis, you could just tie hippity-hops to the signal boat hull -- after all, how much separation do they really need?

To the best of my knowledge, there is no single starting tactic that always wins. For every attack, there is some defense. If, for example, you were moving straight backwards next to the committee boat, and I were right behind you, I could (assuming I had the boathandling skills) slip sideways enough to keep clear of you (provided other boats weren't blocking that move), but not enough to give you room to turn down to close-hauled for the starting signal. In other words, you'd have no gap to leeward. Then I'd be able to accelerate first and you'd be left in my dirty air.

Pretty much whatever the starting habits of the fleet, the crew that maneuvers their boat the best, and times their attack the best, will win the start -- and that's exactly how it should be.

Regards,
Eric

While not "barging" per say, this video shows a boat taking a transit on the layline to the committee boat, "closing the door" well behind the line, and forcing a windward boat to peel off at the start.



I hope that helps,
Eric

Aaaaahhhhh everything is right with the world again. Feeling much better now.

Starting is a skill and should always be rewarded.

I'm only a bush sailor so good luck backing up on me I would just sit there and not let the other boat back up over the start line then piss myself laughing as I did my turn after the start while the backup genius goes around the end buoy to start again

Are the luxury of sailing a 400lb boat called Ram Raider.

Contact is one thing... I've seen boats practically make love to the barging buoy.

Sort of like being a "little" pregnant.

Maybe not using such a long line on the barging buoy would keep it from such wild swings? Or attach the buoy to something flexible, like a fiberglass batten, boathook, or antenna attached horizontally from the stern quarter of the start boat?

While the timing and handling would be tricky (but could be learned), is this to say that I could back down on the start line right by the committee boat (without backing a sail) and expect everyone to have to avoid me?



This should fix that whole backing down the start line (and the dip start)

To dipping and backing, I haven't read the rules in some time but I thought you could not be on the course side of the starting line with one minute to go in the starting sequence.

There are no easy solutions to the barging buoy. I often don't use one unless the boat owner requests it (which is pretty often). The currents here are vicious, placing the boat in weird directions at times (think 90 degrees to the wind, or stern upwind). Sometimes the current affects the boat differently than the buoy.

As for the Z flag, my experience is that no one knows what it means, so everyone ignores it. YMMV...

Mike

It's only ignored until they check their scores at the end of the day. If the competitors won't take the time to understand how the game is played then they have to learn the rules the hard way. Far better to learn the lesson at a weekend regatta rather than a week long championship. Because the Z flag is initially ignored is not a reason to keep it rolled up on the deck in my opinion.

back to the barging buoy... can you use a fishing pole tied off the stern of the startng boat, with maybe a crab trap float hanging down (but off the water a bit)? Or a fishing weight with a streamer for visibility?

That would probably keep the buoy fixed behind the boat, and wouldn't cause too much damage if someone bumped/scraped it?

I Flag - The Round-an-End Rule 30.1 will be in effect. If a boat is over the line during the minute before the start then they must sail to the pre-start side of the line around either end before starting.

Z Flag - The 20% Penalty Rule 30.2 will be in effect. If a boat is in the triangle formed by the ends of the line and the first mark during the minute before the start it will receive a 20% scoring penalty. (20% of the number entered or as dictated by the sailing instructions)

Black Flag - The Black Flag Rule 30.3 will be in effect. If boat is in the triangle formed by the ends of the line and the first mark during the minute before its start it will be disqualified

Unless one of those flags are up there is no one minute rule active. Five second google search by the way. If you don't have a rule book... same search for the flags gives you a link to the rule book.

Way over thinking this. If you want the boat you better have the boat handling skills that come with getting the boat. The barging buoy is touchable without penalty and if you mount the buoy in the process then maybe your skillset isn't ready for a boat end start. You know that is exactly what your fellow competitors that witness your brilliance are thinking.

Heeeyyyy, there was a lot of current in Blackwater Sound that year.

It was in reply to the earlier comment about the barging buoy moving all over the place behind the committee boat during an Opti regatta.

But yeah, I've humped a barging buoy or two in my time. The snickering from the leeward boats is still seared into my memory...

If all they did was snicker, you got off way too easy! I'm not talking about protests, either...

Ding, by default RRS, you can't touch the barging buoy without penalty since the definition of mark was changed a few years ago. The SIs have to be carefully written to make that the case.

I agree with your comment about over thinking the gadget-fix approach.

Mike

This was about 5 or so years ago - and the SI's made the barging buoy neither obstacle nor mark nor extension of the committee boat...you could make sweet love to it for all the rules cared....but, straddling it (and the rode) wasn't a smart strategy for speed.

Right... that's what I was saying earlier in the thread. Most of us remember the old rule, and many think it still applies. Worse, lots of RCs recycle SIs and have language that would not hold up in the room.

It is amusing to watch someone get hung up on a barging buoy to the point that they threaten to stab it. Actually, that's much more amusing if you're racing than if it's your RC boat...

Mike

Or your buoy.

Dude, it was probably you (Jake) that shouted I should play some Barry White music while we were tangled up in the barging buoy (talk about some sweet love)... Sounded kind of like a fat guy fighting with a balloon

I don't know if I heard the end of it from my crew that Ding's scared of.

Worse, they used that nasty yellow ski-rope that floats so it was all hung up in the rudder casting.

my darkest fear is that someone, somewhere, may have a picture of that...

It twas. I was sailing with the fabulous squirrel. And, there is a picture...somewhere.

If you had any sense you would have been afraid of her too! Seriously when you guys split up how many of your friends said "Dude, sorry you guys were good together". Oh and if they did say that they were f!@king lying! Hey I get it shagging crazy is all kinds of fun but you gotta get the f!@k out before she stabs you in the heart with a pair of scissors! I'm just glad you're still with us even if you are a trimaran sailor.

Still a great Macho Man story, every time I remember it I look at Kathy and say... baby I'm so glad you picked me!

Everyone has to try a bat-sh&t crazy date once....once. Karl the first has a few.

But, I do have an unusual tendency to turn almost anyone into bat-sh&t crazy. Is it me???


PS - and don't think of it as a trimaran. Think of it as a "Cat with a cane" for us old dudes.

I was at the Outback Cup this past weekend and looked at the Columbia Sailing Club signal barge. They have a very simple and effective barging buoy mounted on the transom. I didn't take a picture, but I'll try to describe it.

It's basically just two pieces of PVC pipe tied to the transom to form a tall isosceles triangle. A small hippity-hop is tied to the vertex. A third line (also attached to the vertex) allows the structure to be raised (for storage) or lowered so that it sticks straight out behind the barge.

Now, Lake Murray doesn't get much current, so the barge wouldn't tend to lay perpendicular to the wind, but such a fixture could be rigged to stick out from a signal boat in pretty much any direction, provided you have tie-points.

I hope that helps,
Eric