It still only has a provisional rating which is 57.9. It only comes with curved boards. I have tried to get them to post it for a year and a half now and gave up dealing with them. I am thinking about switiching to SCHRS. They have ratings for production foiling boats and will return emails.

I don't know anyone on the current PN committee however.... I can say they are following the letter of the rule in the system.

sssssh.... a us sailing conspiracy? really?

People Volunteer to do the job....(it is thankless) When you look at US situation with respect to new cat designs... plus all of the modifications to one design boats and the very very small number of qualified buoy races that give you data... You have to make a decision. Does it work? Is it transparent? is it fair?

How far can you stretch the rules of the PN system?...

We have been making **** up for years AND... no one design fleet wants to take on getting data on their class relative to the yardstick boats. So.. Do you continue just making up new ratings.... AND wind adjustments.... just because you take a SCHRS rating and now GUESS what the US dpn rating should be is not a solution to the problem.

If the OA wants to do that... nothing will stop them.... just don't ask the US PN committee to participate in the flim flam to cover your butt.. You don't get the seal of approval when you want to race your N17 against an F18 fleet.

So... It is quite responsible to say.. .. ... Nah... it is better to preserved the rating tables for the boats (dinghies and cats) that data exist for. Clubs can use the data and pn system as designed... or they can change and make up their own table or pick a different system.

I have been telling you that the system for cats was BROKEN... not repairable and cat fleets should move on for over 5 years.

ITS TIME TO MOVE ON!

The PN committee is just preserving the integrity of the tables as designed.

USSailing seal approval, ask the DPN commmitee to participate in the flim flam to cover our butt. What are you talking about!? Nobody cares about the USSailing seal of approval! Just because it's on the USSailing site doesn't give it any more cred than another handicap system.

The integrity of the tables... YUP... I did write that with a straight face... I participated in guestimatting ratings for things like the F16. We did not follow the PN system....because we had no quality data... (and I doubt there is a uniformly good set of data to date). Did we know what we were doing... YUP!!! we punted on the transparency of the handicap system to meet the demand of a fair table for the upcoming Area D qualifier

So... until you have a data set of 25 races with a fleet of un rated boats racing a fleet of yardsticks...... not a problem.

Jake, Why would that matter?

the old boats that have ratings with tons of data behind them will not change. You only have to run the program for new boats... and you have no data..

So... until you have a data set of 25 races with a fleet of un rated boats racing a fleet of yardsticks...... not a problem.

(I think they actually can run the program... they just can't modify the code or want to rewrite the thing for the 21st century.)

Jake, if I understand what you and others are saying is that the DP-N system is not being actively managed since the passing of Darlene's era?

Dave....are you the reactionary to anything US Sailing or just the conventional one design nazi and opposed to all handicap racing in general.. I get the frustration with unrelated past US Sailing issues... but .... its time to let it go. I have punted on getting you to see the value of handicap racing in a dying sport.

um to the point... ... Of course you care about the Sanction of US Sailing.. If you go to Steeplechase with your ragged out N17 half baked foiler... You have no rating. So... you now get to race under the Rick White Steeplechase modified PN system. He does his best to make up a rating... BUT the fact that your N17 regatta budget includes buying drinks for Rick White to discuss your rating does raise some questions in the minds of others..

US Sailing is not going to sanction the N17 rating. EVEN IF they have a perfect crystal ball and can guess the exact fair rating for the half baked POS N17.

So...Do you care about the Rick White handicap system? probably not.... do the competitors in the Steeplechase care?... perhaps. Why race if you don't have 100% buy in to the rules?

The fact that they could see you at the bar buying drinks for the handicaper is not what transparency means.


The whole point of a national rating system is that for good or bad... It is sanctioned and transparent in following the design rules of the rating system..

Perhaps I should remind you of when we had alter cup qualifiers...eg somebody cared about the final results... and the rating based on bad data gave you a really high F16 rating relative to the fleet. Suddenly Bob Curry and others demanded a modification. And so it was done ...
Bottom line... this was not portsmouth.... we PHRFd the rating to make it fair for the fleet.


The integrity of the tables... YUP... I did write that with a straight face... I participated in guestimatting ratings for things like the F16. We did not follow the PN system....because we had no quality data... (and I doubt there is a uniformly good set of data to date). Did we know what we were doing... YUP!!! we punted on the transparency of the handicap system to meet the demand of a fair table for the upcoming Area D qualifier


The new foiling boats make this approach a bridge too far.

The choice is simple.... don't race the new boats under US sailing Portmsouth handicap. Make up a local rating....eg.. The Rick White Steeplechase Rating system...Transparency means that you sort it out at the bar with plenty of drinks at hand...and tell the competitors what the rating will be....
or change to a more robust handicap system.


So...I agree with the PN committee to tell you to buzz off unless you have race data of at least 25 buoy races from a fleet of at least 5 boats competing against a fleet of 5 yardstick boats. if you give them that data... they will give you a provisional rating... This is what I mean by preserving the integrity of the PN table.

otherwise... go make it up on your own a Steeplechase rating system and let the competitors know what the deal is before they sign up for the race. Stop supporting the whining about US sailing not doing what you want...

Please don’t put words in my mouth or tell me what I’m thinking!

It's dead because there is no data.

The fact that most of you refuse to join, then publicly rant about no support doesn't help your case.

No one, and I mean absolutely no one, at US Sailing cares if you use a different system.

We've had these debates for eons here. A standard system is necessary for credibility. No one has crunched numbers to prove that there is a better system.

If one of the other systems is better to use, and has the support of the fleet, I will fully support it as the MHC chair.

Mike