Hi Steve…LOL we have a major communication problem on this…I was talking about a manufacture…not an individual…if I lead you to believe that we have to pay our selves to build a “home built boat” I am sorry…We have some pretty screwed up laws here and there…but nothing that outlandish…yet…LOL

If you looked into it, you would probably find a smaller percentage of people desiring to build a boat from scratch here in the US than in Australia or South Africa. Heck it’s hard enough to sell something that needs a little repair or has a part or two missing…for the most part the US (at least in my area) seems to be moving more and more to a turn key society…they don’t want to build it, or fix it…they want it completely ready to put to use without doing anything on their part.

Bob

Say what? I didn't say anything at all about distances.

Bill,

Like I said (and please notice that I said it without sarcasm or personal attack) that the distance and time I said "including no tacking back and forth to get there". Yes, I can achieve 14mph (note that's straight line and not VMG) upwind and if that will win me a Nacra 6.0NA championship then WHOOO HOOO. However, I am quite sure that it will not. If you'll also notice, I said that the Supercat would be even faster. Why the sarcasm?

EDIT: I went back to check some of my GPS tracks and ok...14mph might just win me a Nacra 6.0 championship, 14mph might have been a little high. I have seen peaks that high but the most it looks like I've been able to sustain for any length of time is in the 11-13mph range.

>>Regarding the downhaul on the Taipan, as I recall it's only 6:1 vs the I17R's 8:1 (but the I17R needs it with it's stiffer mast). Since the Taipan's downhaul is internal, does anyone know if it's possible to easily ugrade to an 8:1? If one did that would it be class legal or just good for recreational sailing?


Taipan comes standard with a 1:12 cascaded downhaul system. Meaning 1:6 internally of the mast followed by a 1:2 externally combining to make a 1:12 system.

You can have anything you want under both Taipan and F16 rules.


>>Questions: does either the T4.9 or I17R have mast over-rotation and in peoples experience is this really useful?

Taipan does, but not all rig this system. I have not seen one on nacra F18 ir I17 boats. The system on the Taipan works but is not really something to write home about. I did find it handy in some really light stuff though; in other conditions I would leave it off.


Wouter

Thanks, Wouter.
Good input.

Jerry

Hi ej,
It is not that easy and simple. Marketing is not what got Hobie Cat where it is today. Spark plug sailors, boat owners, did it for Hobie Cat in the beginning and I don't think that can ever be duplicated.
Bill

Hi Bill,
I realize it's not that easy. I view marketing very broadly--boat owners/product users are part of any marketing effort (that's the "word of mouth" part). I mainly just wanted to point out that comprehensive marketing could launch cat sailing back into the public's view but doing so effectively would be well beyond the budget of any of the manufacturers without an IPO with a large cash infusion. Just isn't going to happen. One idea, though, is for the manufacturers to form a marketing cooperative--something like all dairy producers getting together to collectively promote milk drinking. They can get the message out much better than one dairy farmer here or there.
Rgds,

The Mystere 4.3 took off in Ohio for several reasons. I think there is a lot to be learned from it.

1. Price. The first round of new boats were sold for about $3200. That included a jib, main, and snuffer launched spinnaker.

2. Niche. Simple & quick to set up. Simple, appropriate for the beginning sailor (like the Hobie 16 & 14). Yet with 3 sails sporty enough for the advanced racer to have a blast sailing and racing, especially single handed!

3.) Word of mouth. One sailor called several friends, they called more friends, before we were done we had filled a semi trailer with 30 new boats. That was something we could do at $3000 that we couldn't do at $7000.

INSTANT REGIONAL CLASS!

It's currently the boat I sail the most and the class I am having the most FUN in.

Hi Jerry,

Just like to clarify from which standpoint you raise these questions, your original post which started this thread sounded like you were asking the question from a novice perspective on cat-sailing, yet you seem to have a sound understanding of what design elements make a boat go fast, as well as skipper input required, so a novice you are not !

"Lower sheet/control line loads sounds good to me. But so does a less stiff mast (such as that on the Taipan) so you don't need to play the lines nearly as much to compensate for gusting conditions." - This implies you have a good understanding of the difference between the behaviour of spreader-less masts as found on Hobie 16 etc, which are much stiffer than spreader type masts like Taipan etc, which enable the mast to be a lighter & therefore more flexible extrusion.
Having sailed H16 & Dart 18 a fair bit, and then Mosquito, the difference is remarkable (for the benefit of those who may have only sailed one type of boat). It`s really great to just hoik the mainsheet in hard, double trap & point the thing upwind, looking up at the mainsail leech on Saturday I was just watching the leech open up & then close again in each gust, with a corresponding increase in speed. Awesome stuff. If you`ve only ever sailed a boat with a stiff mast you won`t understand how well this works, until, like me, you`re "converted". (I was actually watching the whole rig, since I`ve just fitted out a new mast after breaking my last on New Year`s Day, and was nervously watching for signs of an "action replay".)

On the subject of the lighter boat : Have you seen the video footage of the A-class, or F18HT ? Man, I`d rather spend half my sailing time upside-down with one of those than sail a concrete boat.

Cheers
Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the input.

You said:
>> Just like to clarify from which standpoint you raise these questions, your original post which started this thread sounded like you were asking the question from a novice perspective on cat-sailing, yet you seem to have a sound understanding of what design elements make a boat go fast, as well as skipper input required, so a novice you are not !

I am a novice as far as cat sailing is concerned, but have a couple of good solid seasons sailing a 17' planing monohull dinghy. It's a Hunter 170 which is a fast daysailor (centerboard, not keeled), which I singlehand (catrigged, sloop, and sometimes spi). Since it wasn't designed for singlhanding, the controls are not setup to allow you to get to them from the rail or the back of the boat. That, plus the fact that it was really intended to be sailed by 2-3 people, makes it quite challenging to singlehand as the wind picks up. I ended up almost completely re-designing the running rigging on the boat, adding more purchases, re-routing most lines, adding missing controls, adding hiking straps, and even adding a trapeze setup. In a sense, learning to sail a boat such as this which required lots of modification and one which really needs more crew weight does accelerate the learning curve and may have made me a better sailor. However, once I began to experience the thrill of speed due to enhancements and better leveraging my limited weight (and got into windsurfing as well), I quickly realized what I was missing on boats such as modern catamarans which are optimized for speed and singlehanding. I suspect I'll take to catamarans like a duck to water - only hopefully not a lame duck!

You also said:
>> "Lower sheet/control line loads sounds good to me. But so does a less stiff mast (such as that on the Taipan) so you don't need to play the lines nearly as much to compensate for gusting conditions." - This implies you have a good understanding of the difference between the behaviour of spreader-less masts as found on Hobie 16 etc, which are much stiffer than spreader type masts like Taipan etc, which enable the mast to be a lighter & therefore more flexible extrusion.

My boat is a fractional rig with upper and lower shrouds and a moderately stiff mast. I enjoyed tuning the rig and seeing it's effect on boat perfromance and handling. But it was also clear what the limits of a rig like this are in higher wind and gusty conditions, particularly when the directional wind shifts were extreme! It didn't take long, after watching the masts of Lasers and Megabytes to grasp the significance of a self depowering rig. It's interesting that although many popular monohull dinghy classes use these in the US (and worldwide), I'm not sure I've seen any US made catamarns use them.

This brings up some very interestng questions, so I'm going to take this opportunity to start a new thread!

See "Soft mast + heavy boat = ?"...

Jerry