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Re: Hydroptere with foils [Re: Luiz] #30927
04/29/04 07:07 PM
04/29/04 07:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
John_Ilett Offline
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John_Ilett  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
The wider top portion of the surface piercing foil means that the boat will reduce lift within a shorter distance as the boat rises compared to a constant chord. A constant chord foil of moderate or narrow chord length would fly really high. Well this is some of the reasoning behind other surface piercing foilers.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Hydroptere with foils [Re: John_Ilett] #30928
04/29/04 07:58 PM
04/29/04 07:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
If I understood correctly, you are saying that the progressive reduction of foil chord reduces the amplitude of up and down movement. Makes sense to me.

I saw the photo in the foiled Moth of your construction (I guess) and would like to ask something:

Could you elaborate on the reasons why many Moths use eliptical tips? In the US there is a tendency to make them square.

Thanks,
Luiz


Luiz
Re: Hydroptere with foils [Re: Luiz] #30929
04/29/04 11:19 PM
04/29/04 11:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
John_Ilett Offline
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John_Ilett  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
Some of the surface piercing moths have eliptical tips although none of my own T foilers have had eliptical tips as yet. I have a new moulding for and eliptical tip to match the 120mm hydrofoil I use. These reduce the tip vortex making for more efficiency/less drag and more speed.

Re: Foilcats [Re: Darrin] #30930
05/13/04 03:03 PM
05/13/04 03:03 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1
Sussex UK
WeymouthSpeedWeek Offline
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WeymouthSpeedWeek  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1
Sussex UK
Just wishing to wave the flag for Joddy and George Chapman who have developed Ceres, one of the most well sorted foiling cats I have ever seen. Regularly sails at close on twice the wind speed (see the results for sail number 141 at Weymouth Speed Week 2002 SpeedSailing.com) A few details about Ceres and links to further information.Ceres .

Regards

Nick Povey




Re: Foilcats (a different foiled item) [Re: Darrin] #30931
06/07/04 01:54 PM
06/07/04 01:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
jmhoying Offline
enthusiast
jmhoying  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
I was playing on a foiled "Sky Ski" board yesterday. The foil on this contraption is about 3' long. It is amazing how the slightest movement will make it jump one way or another. Just taking your hand off the rope to scratch your nose would mean an instant wipeout. My friend is better at this sport and can control it easily, but it does take a long time to master. I like to refer to the control as "touchy-feely". Not sure how different the foils on a cat would be, but I think that I would want a computer doing the thinking for me to maintain control.
[Linked Image]
Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio


Jack Hoying Fort Loramie, Ohio
Re: Foilcats (a different foiled item) [Re: jmhoying] #30932
06/09/04 09:11 AM
06/09/04 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline
enthusiast
Frozen  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Jim,
Are you seat belted in? How is a wipeout? Looks like it might be exciting.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Foilcats (a different foiled item) [Re: Frozen] #30933
06/09/04 04:23 PM
06/09/04 04:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
jmhoying Offline
enthusiast
jmhoying  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
Yes, you do have a seat belt on. Wipe outs are usually easier on the body than regular water skiing. The nice thing about it is that it doesn't take a whole lot of physical effort to get up and to ride it. This makes the learning process a whole lot better, since you can try a bunch of starts without being to whipped to hold on to the rope. After you master the starts, you pop up with ease. Here's a couple photos I took of my friend trying to do 360s, both of which were unsuccesful.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

For more information, do a Google search for Sky Ski, or Air Chair (two brand names)

Jack


Jack Hoying Fort Loramie, Ohio
Re: Foilcats [Re: dacarls] #30934
07/01/04 11:25 PM
07/01/04 11:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1
T
Tom_Speer Offline
stranger
Tom_Speer  Offline
stranger
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1
Quote
...Eppler 817 and Speer's foil shape H105 are PROBABLY best for hydrofoil sailing: These are low rise, low bucket shapes that should not ventilate readily at our speeds. Caveats: Supercavitating foils and/or air injection are for high-powered motor-driven vessels only. Sharp entry symmetrical foils like the NACA0012 series ventilate readily. I know this for a fact!...


FYI, here are the cavitation diagrams for the E817 and H105 plus a NACA 6-series section. These data are not found on the NASG site.
[Linked Image]

Ventilation, of course, is a different animal. You need to have separated flow to cause ventilation, so that may be a good place to look. I don't know why the NACA 0012 would be particularly ventilation-prone - I'd expect it to be more resistant. But maybe there were some details of the actual foil configuration that caused the flow to separate.

Re: Foilcats [Re: Tom_Speer] #30935
07/02/04 12:47 PM
07/02/04 12:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
Thanks Tom,

Could you please add a Clark-Y shape to that interesting figure? My original NACA 0012 aluminum struts would ventilate badly when presented at high speed at any angle more than a few degrees to the water: These Aluminum struts were probably not really NACA 0012 because they had been extruded too thin, and had very sharp leading edges.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Covered Orma 60 foils [Re: Darrin] #30936
07/05/04 05:50 PM
07/05/04 05:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
I read that the Orma 60 tris covered their foils in the dock after the Transat. Does anyone know of a new idea or concept that could be so important to justify the covers and extra work to hide the foils? I don't believe it was just for protection.

Thanks!


Luiz
Re: Covered Orma 60 foils [Re: Luiz] #30937
07/06/04 03:03 PM
07/06/04 03:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
I also noticed that the new planing/foiling cat from France with curved lifting foils placed poorly: He hit something and damaged one foil early on. Did this make a big difference? Does this concept really work?


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Covered Orma 60 foils [Re: dacarls] #30938
07/06/04 08:44 PM
07/06/04 08:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Yves Parlier hidroplane cat arrived last in the ORMA 60 multihull class, hardly a success. Lets see how it does in Quebec-St.Malo.

He said the following about the race (bad translation-sorry)

"This was the worst crossing in my life. From Beaufort 3-4 the spray flew permanently. Very soon I was completely wet, despite the sophisticated equipment. I knew it would be tough, but I didn't expect this. I thought I'd be able to sail at ease with the boat under control. But after a favorable beam wind tore one of the mainsails my morale was destructed. The other hull jumps on top of the waves transmiting chocks and vibrations to the craft in the limit of bearable. Apart from that, the lewward sail is hard to see and the craft is difficult to trim. I give myself two years to tame the boat and extract all of its potential, doubtless more for record breaking then for Grand Prix. I was doing 27 knots in Cape Cod and the highest speed reached was 35.5 knots."

Luiz


Luiz
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