Thanks for the support and encouragement, Eric. I am including a photo of my boat as a before picture.

John

I am not sure why, but the Forum did not include the photo the first time so I will try again. The boat did include a trailer that had three flat tires (the spare was also flat!) It was built in the late '80's, sailed about a half dozen times and been sitting in a backyard in Redondo Beach ever since.

John

Greetings BLS,

I noticed that you are making moves toward a Hobie 16. May I assume you considering configuring that boat for competition as an F16.

If so, good for you! I have talked extensively with Eric Poulson about this (the West Coast F16 rep) and we BOTH agree that the best way to grow the F16 is to encourage as many people as we can to do exactly what you and I are doing. (ie: building F16's out of existing boats.) And yes, we believe that the H16 like my Nacra would fit the "spirit" of the F16 rules and would welcome you and your boat aboard. And I suspect Wouter would say the same thing.

And while I know next to nothing about details on the H16, let me make a couple of suggestions:

1. Check out the Hobie websites for things to look for on a used H16. Those guys are probably the best source of info since they are really into the boat.

2. If I can be of help or encouragement on any other level, let me know. AND do keep me posted on how your project is going. I live in SoCal by the way so I may have more access to a better selection of H16 parts.

3. Eric and I are talking about trying to have an F16 West Coast championship (maybe in connection with the A Cat guys) in 2005. And to do that we really we're looking at a VERY mixed fleet of boats. And we both agree that's great.

So hang in there, and again, keep me posted.

John Nacra F16 (USA-74)

Hi John,
Am I the only one who can`t see the pic ?
Well done on the initiative, how many N5.0`s are lying around in other people`s yards, begging to be taken out for a sail again, hopefully in F16 form. A great way to get the class off the ground with a reasonable start-up cost.

Cheers
Steve

I can't see the pic as well.

I'm currently hoping he will try posting it again.

Wouter

Greetings,

Per the request of Wouter & Steve, I will try to post my "before" picture of the Nacra again.

By the way, if you ever buy an older cat that has lots of oxidation on the the gel coat, try using Meguiar's "Heavy Duty Oxidation Remover." It does a GREAT job of restoring gel coat, faster and easier than rubbing compound.

As for how many other Nacra 5.0's are lying about? They guys at Performance Catamaran said they built over 1500 stateside. My guess is there may be more than that worldwide since I know they are building Nacra's in Australia at least.

In any case I hope to be sailing my brand new, second hand F16 by the weekend of the 26th, just in time for the Huntington Lake races.

Cheers to all
John Metzig

Greetings to all,

I couldn't open that one either. So here is my last attempt at uploading a photo of my "before" picture.

John (USA-74)

A few tips when posting pics

-1- make sure they are smaller than 100 kb or they won;t show.

-2- get rid of any funny name; meaning don't use spaces 0r strange characters. Best are short simple names.

-3- make sure they are either JPG or GIF pics. BMP might do but these are quickly over the 100 kb limit

Please try again

Wouter

Hi, I sail with a Nacra Blast.

Is there anyone who Looks withes cat fit in the F16 box????
A Nacra 5.0 has a Texel rating of 117 no spi and 113 whiff spi and is 149 kg + the weight of the spi.
A F16 has a Texel rating of 106 no spi and 102 whiff spi and is 107 kg
I think you will never come close in a race.
Victor.

Hallo Victor,

Alles goed ?


>>Is there anyone who Looks withes cat fit in the F16 box????

The Blast does fit the F16 rules as the class rules only specifies maximum or minimum limits so everything on the right side of the limit is allowed. The Nacra blast was on the right side of every limit the last time I checked and is therefor F16 compliant. Of course you are right by saying that compliance itself is no garantee that you're about as fast as the fully optimized F16's.


>>A Nacra 5.0 has a Texel rating of 117 no spi and 113 whiff spi and is 149 kg + the weight of the spi.

Texel gives 147 kg for he nacra 5.0 and John has ordered a custom made and larger F16 main to go on the boat. This main is 1.5 square meters larger than the standard 5.0 main. If you run all the mods throught the Texel rating calculator you will find that this setup has a new rating of 107 under spi which is getting pretty close to the 102 of the fully optimized F16's.


>>I think you will never come close in a race.

John knows he is at a disadvantage when sailing his "Nacra F16", we adviced him honestly about that, but he has no problem with it. Which in turn I think is cool. He wanted to have a F16 like boat on the water very soon and he found that he could do it for very little investment by this route. He is think about building a fully optimized F16 afterwards. I hear he has made a Timber Cobra for himself in the past so he knows what is means to build himself a new baot like a timber Taipan or Blade.

Getting back to 107 to 102 in rating. I've raced P16 against H16 with a similar rating difference like that and found that this difference is equivalent to a pretty small distance between boats. I found that unless I had a feeling that I'm right on a H16 tail that I wouldn't correct out over him on handicap as well. Most of the time that I corrected out over H16's I finished neck to neck with them or finished just ahead. For this reason I think John will have a good platform to start out on I wouldn't say that is the rating difference was more than 10 points but with 5 points he will come close enough.

Besides The mosquito's in Australia are in a similar situation and did upset a few Taipan sailors over there by just sailing well and finish ahead anyway. It is very easy to overweight a performance difference of a few % when on the water this difference is almost neglectable when sailing a better race.

If john sails well than he will get close.

Je vaart een nacra Blast op Katwijk, doe je vaak mee met hun club wedstrijden ? Hoe verhoud de blast zich tot de andere boten ?

Fair winds,

Wouter

Greetings,

Thanks to Wouter for jumping into the fray on my behalf. I'd just like to add a few thoughts of my own:

1. I got into this with my eyes wide open. I chose the Nacra 5.0 because it fit into the basic box limits of the F16 class and I could pick one up REALLY cheap. I was aware of the weight and non-board limitations of the 5.0 when I started.

2. I also happened to have my last set of sails from my old Cobra gathering dust in my garage. I found out these could be cut to fit the optimized size for the F16 class for a small investment. Since I happen to live in So. Cal. Skip Elliott, who made all the US Nacra sails, is doing the work for me. I'm also talking to him about a gennaker. I'm pretty sure at least my rig will be up to the task.

3. All of that meant I could put an F16 together and get on the water in a short time for a reasonable cost. My logic was and is, if I race in the F16 class 2 or 3 times a year, who cares how fast my boat is? And if I find myself racing more than that? I can build a set of lightweight hulls to fit the hardware off my Nacra and will get a close to optimized F16 without a huge initial investment.

4. As for "getting close" - if I remember right, that's why we race the races. Slower boats, cars, horses, etc. (Do women fit in here somewhere?) have been scoring wins for years. Personally, over the years I won a few races with a much slower boat and lost a few with a much faster boat. I still believe the "nut on the tiller" makes the most difference.

And as Eric Poulson, the F16 West Coast rep who sailed a Nacra 5.0, suggested, the limitations of my Nacra F16 will be less important when the wind comes up.

The verdict: even though I didn't know the F16 class existed until early May, I should be racing one a got with pocket cash by the last week of June. And that's pretty neat - and a lot more fun than looking at pictures.

Good sailing to all.

John
Nacra f16 (USA74)

Today it depends very much on the course sailed as to which "spinnaker" cat will "win" races. If races are set as windward and returns without reaches then the most tactical and importand legs are the "runs" and with spinnaker but no centre boards you will suffer no disadvantage, all depends on the ability of the skipper and/or crew to pick the correct angles and side of the course. Although you will obviously suffer some what on the beats, from watching the F18's race for a few years now, any advantages on the beats will be lost in seconds if that best beating boat doesn't get it together on the run, so just "go for it and exploit your "good points" and you may be in for a pleasant surprise.If you sail an "olympic" style course ie trianglr loop triangle, then there are the extra reaching legs that you have no disadvantage on, and dont let any one tell you that a "heavy" can't beat a boat that is ultra light. if the skipper and crew use their weight on the boat in the right way, weight can be a great advantage in all sorts of weather, not just the heavy.
Darryl

Is not that I don’t like the idea of the Nacra F16 (I like it very much).

Watt I mend is“ there are a lot of cat that can be modified to fit the F16 rule Box.”.
How can a Cat. be modify to be a compatible F16 cat?

In fact I want to do the same with my blast.
Example I can make my Blast faster whiff a lager rig (jip and mean sail).
A bigger jip is the les expensive. 13 sq.mrt mail sail is good one up handled.
I sailed my Nacra 5.5 whiff 16 sq.mrt one up up a lack not up the Noord sea, that is to rough.
Fore me 15 sq.mrt is a bit much fore the blast one up.

What we typically do with modifying cats to the F16 rule/performance is take the Texel handicap calculator and start adjusting parameters until we approach the F16 handicap of 102.

But a little knowlegde of sailbaot design is handy. OF course a bigger jib doesn't help that much when you sailing downwind with a spinnaker.

>>How can a Cat. be modify to be a compatible F16 cat?

Often the problem is not to be compatible but to be close in performance. F16 rules do enclose alot of the 16 foots cats on the water today but it also outperforms all of them.


>>In fact I want to do the same with my blast.

I've looked at the blast and I think that it is pretty limited in adjustment because of its weight and short mast. The weight can not be changed of course and the short mast limits mainsail area and spinnaker luff length. These two are very important in boosting performance. The Nacra 5.0 has a significantly taller mainsail luff length.

>>13 sq.mrt mail sail is good one up handled.

How much do you weight ?

Wouter

Doesn't the Blast have small racks? I don't think racks are against the F16 rules, unless they extend beyond the max. width. So width might be another issue with the Blast.

Not that I'm an expert on Nacra's (even though I'm about to start sailing a converted one), but according to the Nacra website the racks on the Blast are an option on the racing version. With the racks installed, the Blast is 10'8" which it seems to me suggests that Blast could be sailed as an F16 without the racks.

Of course, the class could agree to let them in with them with the racks, but that's a different issue. And while I'm all for the F16 class being as inclusive as possible, I think altering width limits that much could come back to bite us.

And while on the subject of my boat, Skip Elliott of Elliott Pattison sails did a SUPER job making my old Cobra sail fit the F16 limits including putting an F16 logo on it. AND he did it for a price that was so low I felt guilty taking the sail. Skip said he wanted to do his part to help us get off the ground.

So if you're stateside and need a sail or a sail recut, give him a call. He's been making the Nacra sails since the start and is just a super guy.

Also one of the guys at his company got so interested in F16 idea he's talking about bringing his Freestyle 474 to the Huntington race.

John Metzig
USA 74

Hi all,
just thought I would pass on my experiences of sailing a non optimised F16 Mosquito.The biggest factor in performance I find is the sailors on the boats and the conditions, in favourable conditions I have been able to beat most other cats on the water so if you are looking at putting a cheap F16 on the water by modifiying a existing cat I would say go for it. By example at a recent reggatta on a lake I have sailed on for all my life with wind gusting from 0 to 30 knots in flat water [everything in my favour] sailing in a mixed fleet including Olympic Tornado,Hobie Tigers,Taipan 4.9 sloop with spinnaker,A class,Taipan 4.9 catrig,Hobie 18, I was able to be first over the line in two races and place in the first three over the line in five of six races held with 20 boats in the division. I did however not finish one race as I capsized while trapezing on a reach with spinnaker up [something I don't recomend to those starting to sail F16 one up.] and the mast filled with water so I had to get rescue boat assistance to right it.I copped alot of stirring about the capsize but if you want to get maximum performance out of your boat you have to live with the consequences and usualy I am able to right the boat and continue.
Get Sailing, Gary.

Anyone heard anything on the Blade production?

i cant wait to check out the price of this F16 when compared to other cats.

Greetings,

I recently traded emails with Matt who's with the company that is going to be building the Blade F16 in the States. Here's what he told me about production:

"The tooling for the boat is being machined right now. There are not really any pictures of it other than those found on the F16 web site of the prototype. All of the components for finishing out the boats are either here or are in transit including foils and sails. As we get hull 1 completed, the complete build including the tooling will be documented on the http://www.1design.net/ web site and eventually transferred to our company site. Also a formal press release including pricing and availability will be released when hull 1 is splashed."

If you want to purchase plans and have a go at building one yourself, the contact info is: [email]phillbrander@bigpond.com.[/email]

Hope that helps.

In the meantime, my new tramp should be here tomorrow and I plan on getting my boat out on the water this weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to make the race at Huntington Lake.

John
Nacra F16 (USA 74)