Wouter,
1. It would be a great event to sail with F 16. One would learn alot and have fun.

2. I was always envious of the F 16 organization and helpfulness and events, and wondered what a dream it would to be compete.

3. Slowest boat?....we will see,....we have some Caribbean skills you know,...after all, we put de lime in de coconut...that was pretty innovative!

Thanks for the good news,......I suspect alot of I17s may be marking thier racing calanders for F 16 events now!


regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

Brobu,

>>1. It would be a great event to sail with F 16. One would learn alot and have fun.

Well don't forget that we can learn a hell of alot from you guys as well.

This is a win-win situation for all of us.


>>>2. I was always envious of the F 16 organization and helpfulness and events, and wondered what a dream it would to be compete.


Well, for that you may be in the wrong neck of the woods as F16 doesn't have any local branch there. Although there is some talk of starting one in Puerto Rico (closer but not close I estimate). Apart from that share on the forum make comments do whatever helps either yourself or us. You're welcome.


>>>3. Slowest boat?....we will see,....we have some Caribbean skills you know,...after all, we put de lime in de coconut...that was pretty innovative!


Well, we got you up to speed with regard to the FX-one of Harper and the texel difference between these is 4%; Just shows that a few % isn't really that much difference anyway. So Slowest boat is definately a very relative term ! So keep at it and maybe you can give the future PR F16's a lesson or two in fast sailing !


>>Thanks for the good news,......I suspect alot of I17s may be marking thier racing calanders for F 16 events now!

Well, in all honest this dependents on the area. Actually overhere the Dart 18, FX, I-17 and A-cats already started a annual national 1-up Cup 2 years ago. So in this case the F16's will be making use of their initiative. And thus we help eachother.

I'm hoping to get that I-17 sailor at my club to tag along. Looks like at my club we may have a few F16's in the not to distant future. Together with the 4-7 F18's that regular race in our club series we may wel end up with a very competitive race series. Last year we did 21 races and crews from neightbouring clubs sail down to ours to participate. The level is getting high. Occasionally we have Gerard Loos competing on his Tiger.

Regards,

Wouter

>The way i see it
>The I-17 sold mainly in Eu called the Nacra 17
>In North America the I-17R is the main model sold now called the Nacra F17.

Sounds about right.

>both are single-handed classes.

They are, although I've seen a few with jib kits being sailed as doublehanders at Texel for example.

>>The Nacra F17 will have two spinnakers, a larger one for sailors over 210 lbs. with a estimated sail area of 12sf larger than the standard one. (nice idea)

When the gate height and poles aren't modified as well than the difference between the two kites performance wise will most likely be neglectable.


>>F16 Class, is it a single handed class or double handed class seems odd to try to be both?

It may seem that way but it is definately both. Taipan 4.9 has been double moded for over 10 years now.

Both versions handle very well, but I always tell people to try it out themselfs.

There are some features that allow the F16's to do both modes well. Relatively small sails that are easily trimmed singlehandedly, small weight and a basic design that is more oriented to low drag than high power. Of course law drag sailing is less strenious on a solo sailor than power sailing.

Stuff like that.

>>one final note, HEY Wouter its Nacra not nacra, I see you cap all other manufactures.

Ohh, the "error" was not done intentionally. sorry

Nacra !

Wouter

We used the Texel measured Length Over All when we wrote this rule.

We specifically wrote them in such as way that it would include the FX-one and I-17 (in all versions)

5.30 mtr = 17' 4.5"

This leaves a little margin for the baots and for measurement.

If it was found out that the boats are just a little longer than we'll adjust this rule. The intention of this rule was clear ; include similar boats like I-17 and FX-one.

Texel measure the I-17R at 5.24 mtr. overall. 2 inches to spare.

Some speed you got there singlehandedly !

F6+ ?!! that is alot of wind when singlehanding the kite.

Wouter

Actually chaps! If we want to be that pedantic, it should be N.A.C.R.A. The name origanally stood for - North American Catamaran Racing Association, and the first off the beach cat of theirs was the 5.2 which was a scaled down version of a N.A.C.R.A. "D" class cat.

Wouter,



Yup, goes alright on flat water !



Yup, flat water makes it much easier ! Sail on a large lake (in UK terms) in the UK most of the time

BTW, I mentioned my new GPS, I have written a short review for a motoring Site I help to look after, There a a fair number of images, so Iwould not recomend non ADSL users have a look, but it's here if you are interested :

Mini Review of Garmin V, image intensive !

Personally been using the Garmin Geko 201 together with a friend who has the same one.

We clocked similar speeds (16.8 knots) to yours without a spi on a Taipan 4.9. Remarkable the speeds on upwind, downwind and reaching legs were very similar. That was something we didn't really expect. F5 to high F5 on a lake as well but some chop build over time. We were to chicken the hoist the spi that time. The course was also relatively short because mono's were on the start line with us. The C-mark was only meters from the shore and I actually had to jump off 2 times at the c-mark to prevent beaching the cat. Made for some nerve racking C-mark roundings. The lake was an old Sandpit so the banks are very steep.

See attachment.

Note this was certainly not one of our better rides together. Was our first time together as well. Later plots show more consistant sailing but the plots are less well developped to show on the net.

GPS's are cool that is for sure.

Wouter

What software are you guys using to get these plots, I want to do a similar thing with my etrex.

Wouldn't it be good if you could link up a wind instrument to a gps then you could get some really meaningful data out.

I am using 'mapsource' hat was bundled with my GPS

Works a treat.

Bruce,

The bows dip a little when you bear off. I never pitchpoled my NACRA 17R in a little more than 4 years of racing, and I don't know of anyone who has gone over any other way then sideways on the NACRA 17R. I HAVE gone over numerous times (4 times the first regatta!) and have been known to "push the envelope", "live on the edge", etc. I don't think using the spinnaker causes the bow to depress.

Sparky,

You are not trying hard enough !

I've only tipped over 3 times in about 4 years, but all with the Kite up!

First was a wild gybe in a fair bit of wind whe I just 'went for it' too much and the Kite was pulling before I was ready and the boat just blew over.

The other two were while wiring with the kite up and I just Pitch-poled big time (was fairly windy F5++) because I had too much plate down.

I really like the concept to allow more folks to sail the boat. Big guys usually pay a penalty downwind and by adding a small amount of sailarea to the spin is a fantastic idea.

I'm in 100%!

Bob

In two weeks, the CRAM F17 Fleet is adopting the new rules and the prototype large spinnaker has been promised. We expect to see it used at the Tawas regatta and the local dealer (Cathouse www.cathouse1.com) is offering a special deal on the prototype spinakers for the heavier skippers (over 210#).

Hey Sparky! Any chance the CRAM F17 group would allow the F16 1up boats or Hobie FX ones sail with them?

It is interesting that you mention sailing F16 single-handed boats head-to-head with the F17! We have done this in the Catfight for the last 4 years because all the single-handed boats start together. I don't think there would be any objection to having them sail and be scored in the same class and I think it would be good for the F16 Uni sailors to have a (larger) fleet to play in. It would be up to the skipper to decide if he wanted to sail with the F17s and register that way for scoring. I am pretty sure that the double-handed F-16 would be scored in the Low Portsmouth fleet. Regardless of whether the boat is the same speed or not, 4 hands against 2 hands is just not always fair, IMHO.

The alternative is to sail Portsmouth fleet and be scored on handicap. CRAM has a High Portsmouth and Low Portsmouth class which are scored separately. This last weekend, the Low Portsmouth class included NACRA 20 and A-Class and the Low Portsmouth included H-18, H-17 and H-16. One design fleets were F-18 and NACRA 17.

>><>I don't think there would be any objection to having them sail and be scored in the same class and I think it would be good for the F16 Uni sailors to have a (larger) fleet to play in.

That would be the case. The more souls the better the fun.

>>It would be up to the skipper to decide if he wanted to sail with the F17s and register that way for scoring. I am pretty sure that the double-handed F-16 would be scored in the Low Portsmouth fleet. Regardless of whether the boat is the same speed or not, 4 hands against 2 hands is just not always fair, IMHO.

4 hand to 2 hands, yes I agree.


Wouter

Will any F16 show up for cat fight? would be interesting to see all the single handed boats racing.

>>Will any F16 show up for cat fight? would be interesting to see all the single handed boats racing.

Well, I-17 and F16's are geographically a little apart. F16 being present in the southern parts of US and rising in California. And the I-17 being strong around the Ohio-Michigan area.

Don't know if many will travell up to cat fight. However there are a few T's at Rhode Island I beleive.

We'll just have to see. Eventually the two zones will met and then some combined racing will be fun I'm sure.

Wouter

NACRA F17 Tuning Guide is now posted on The Cathouse website (http://www.cathouse1.com/). "Click" on NACRA F17 and then at the bottom of that page, "click" on F17 Tuning.
This document has been recently updated and reflects the change in the Rules.

I havn't been able to locate the rules for this new F17 class. Is this class a "formula" class like the F14, F16 F18 and F20? That is, can other manufacturers or individuals build conforming F17 boats or is it limited to one manufacturer.