Dear all,

before really voting on the new upgrades I would like to take the opportunity to discuss this a little further.





My observation is that Europe is the TIGER stronghold in the IHCA, we also see pretty much two different groups of TIGER sailors:



A. The pure TIGER sailor

B. The F18 sailor who owns a TIGER



So before we consider major changes to the boat, I am not talking about the daggerboard stoppers but more about the new sailcut and the trampoline, we should consider the consequences.



Therefore several questions circulate in my head:



Do we want that the TIGER class will be an ever changing class?

Do we attract more people to the TIGER class by changing rules and thus implementing innovations?

Or do we turn away more TIGER sailors by doing so?



Do we need to consider the F18 sailor at all, who owns a TIGER? Yes, I think so, but it must not be our first concern.





Some thoughts on this from me:



The TIGER is a more or less one design boat. Therefore we should stay mainly with the current design. We are not the F18 class association.



If we allow all of the proposed changes including the major changes to the sails, we (kind of) must agree to any other proposed changes that come from the factory, be they innovation driven or production driven (like the trampoline changes).



I think we would not be consistent enough in our class policy if we again agreed on those changes. Changing the sail plan of a pretty new boat, does not matter that much, but imagine the 49ers would change the sails right now? Everybody would have to change! So, I am asking myself, is it a marketing driven issue?

Looking into the competition in the F18 world of the TIGERS, I would say yes! So, by implementing the new sails into the TIGER it would mainly benefit the factory who then only needs to supply the new sails.



Yes, F18s need development, so for F18 sailors other sails then Hobie Sails are on the market, the new thing might be that HCE then also offers those in order to regain some of the market.



We on the other hand would tend to "upset" those average sailors amongst ourselves, especially the younger ones, that don´t have that much money, but love to sail this exciting boat. We might risk to loose them. They, as students or so cannot afford to buy new sails just to be competitive as the new sail cut promises more boat speed.

My recommendation would be:

Let HCE offer the new sails as F18 sails, BUT KEEP the existing cut due to the above mentioned reasons.

This might be a compromise.

There is another issue that was mentioned to only a few of you: ISAF obviously has inofficially uttered that they would not be so happy if the Hobie Class would change their boat rules as frequently as we are doing it right now, but this is a minor issue.

Awaiting your inputs!

Kind regards und tschüß

Fritz Klocke

Vice President IHCA

Why not just offer the new cut sails as an F18 option? Not stock.


Tracie

The way I see it the Tiger has to continue to change as needed to stay competitive in the F18 fleet. The minute it becomes non competitive it becomes another Dart Hawk or Inter 18. However I also believe there has to be overwhelming evidence that the change will make the boat faster. Making changes for the sake of change is a recipe for upset class members. Making changes that don't effect performance but improve durability or ease of use are always looked upon favorably.

I just looked at the IHCA site and saw the proposed tramp change. If sailors think that this is a better design then I say go for it. I can't imagine it really having any impact on the speed of the boat.

I didn't read anything on the site about the mainsail. However I can't imagine that the current sail is slower seeing as it has won the F18 classes consistently. I would need more info on this change before I could really comment.

I noticed the proposed rule changes on downhaul to 16-1 and Mainsheet to 10-1. Have these changes gone into effect? Can I be added to an email list for these changes as they come up?

Mike Hill
Tiger #1520

>>I didn't read anything on the site about the mainsail. However I can't imagine that the current sail is slower seeing as it has won the F18 classes consistently.

It didn't. For some reason the One-designers think that stock Tiger are winning the F18 races. Nothing is further from the truth. The tigers doing well in the races are completely revamped by their sailors. Sheets, sails and nearly all control lines are not even unpacked. They are immediately replaced by stuff that are bought but the sailors themself. Often when buying a boat of these competitive sailors you get these things handed to you still in their wrapping.

Often the competitive sailors also change fittings or the setup of the boat. examples : Footstraps, downhaul systems

Seriously the saying here is that a standard Tger cost 15.500 Euro but that you'll have nothing unless you spend an extra 3000 Euro by replacing all the gear that is below competitiveness. This amount should not have to be paid if Hobie would delivered the platforms without the unwanted gear. They used to refuse that in the past because of this Tiger-one design silliness. I don't know what their stance on it is now, I haven't check for a while.

Lets face it the Tiger is an F18 boat and always will be unless the OD-ers manage to selfdestruct the class. There simply is no one-design tiger and there never was to many changes have occured since 1995.

It is not that I have a thing against OD classes but I don't understand why a few American sailors/businessmen want to [censored] up both the I-20 and Tiger designs because THEY want a OD class. Stay with your nacra 6.0, hobie miracle or Hobie 16 and let the Formula classes be.

Wouter

Wouter,

I agree with that, however, I believe when sailors break down and purchase a Hobie Tiger they do it for two reasons.
They can sail it one-design or as an F18.

Is the one-design scene on the Tiger a fantasy?
It depends where you are sailing, though I'd wager after the world's passes you'll see less and less pure one-design Tiger racing in North America.

As far as replacing all the lines, blocks etc., that is our choice! A preference if you will. I don't think my Marstron spin sheet makes the boat go any faster, it is a preference.

I think part of owning a boat is finding out what works best for you and then dreaming up a way to make it happen.

It would be nice to purchase a stripped boat, but you can not blame the manufacturers for running their business like a business.

Tracie

>>It would be nice to purchase a stripped boat, but you can not blame the manufacturers for running their business like a business.

That I can not indeed.

However , I would think that somekind of one-design Tiger class can easily exist when the OD tiger rules only limit real differences. Anything that is disposable should not fall under OD rules. Sails, blocks, sheetline, trampoline etc should not be ruled upon. There is no way that a sailor is going to win a race because he uses a different mainsheet system. This ooposite has often been claimed by never proven in classes like the Tornado's. Mitch is sailing with some normal harken mainsheet system while others are sailing with some special marstrom invention. Both are winning races.

We have got to loose the mindset that in a OD classes every single item need to be identical. In the end this is not in the interest of the builder nor the sailor.

Also by relaxing the rules a little bit one can attract more tiger sailors to yout Tiger events. Or does anyone really expects that a Tiger F18 crew would downgrade their boat to factory standard just to compete in an OD Tiger event ?

Actually I think Tiger event relax their rule over here in order to attract more than 5 boats; SERIOUSLY. Last tiger nationals here attracted 7 boats while there are more than 10 tigers at my club alone.

No Hobie corp needs to keep with the F18 or risk losing marketshare. Tiger sailors can forget about attracting Toger F18 sailors to Tiger only events when that means rebuilding their upgraded boats. Tiger class simply can not survive on a handful of US and Aus Tiger sailors. None in Europe keeps his or her Tiger in factory setup; certainly not the Hobie hired professional crews so why should we.

With respect to sails. Open up the rules. Any competitive crew needs to buy a new set every 2 years anyway even Hobie 16 and laser sailors buy new sail that regulary or more often. Any sail change will find its way into the fleets within that time and anybody is equal again. All sailors not sailing with these new sails are at a disadvantage because of their old sails ANYWAY. There is no point in pretending that they aren't when everybody used the same cut sails.

If Tiger sails want both F18 and OD tiger options with the same boat that open up the Tiger OD rules so that it is easy to switch from F18 to Tiger OD and leave deposable or replaceble items unruled.

Of course I'm no longer an F18 sailors but that doens't invalidate my comments

Wouter

From what people are sailing in the UK (and Europe to an extent) the Tiger has a fast hull shape (as does the Nacra F18). But as people have said above, the stock kit is not good enough. Sails, Running Rigging setup etc and even rudders are being changed.

It's the way of a formula class

The Tiger Europeans, due to be held at the end of September, have been cancelled. The reason I was given is that not enough pure OD Tigers were prepared to travel to Ireland. Some of them said that their Hobie sails were shot and would not be competitive. They use other sails for F18.

When dealing in a "formula" class, money usually rules as king! The "factory sails" will never be up to par with the other fast lofts competing for a chunk of the pie. What sail loft was the world's winner using? It wasn't factory!
This is a class that you must make a choice to sail in. Being split with the F18 and 'one-design' concept is tough. To be on the cutting edge, it requires 2 sets of sails because the F18 (boat and sails) will constantly evolve. In the USA, you have to make a choice, it will get expensive, and you just have to deal with it.
So, if you want to sail "Hobie", that's one complete set of sails. True cutting edge F18, another. This is the way it is. And this is true for other components of the boat as well. Your choice. It's an arms race (money) the little guy will have trouble competing in.

IMO,
Bob Curry

This is just nonsense; sorry Bob


Hobie should get off their high horse and supply optimal sails with their boats and fit them out with the new generation of (sheet)lines. It is expensive now because a buyer HAS to buy a crappy in house Hobie suit of sail made by some loft in Hong Kong. If Hobie makes a deal with sail landenberger and performance sails so that Hobie can offer both suits on their tigers then everybody is happy. Hobie can still slap up thier profit margin. The lofts get alot of income to continue development and the sailor get some compitive sails for about the same price of those Hong Kong sails.

The only people not being happy in that respect are the OD-fascist who think that their 1995 Tiger with pinhead sails are competitive again any 2004 Tiger with the same (old) shape. They don't realize that their 1995 sails are shot anyway and that they don't stand a change without buying new sails anyways.

Why pay about the same amount for inferiour sails when one can have the new generation sails ? Afterall the inequality between 2002 and 2004 sails are slim at when the differences between 1995 and 2004 is huge. The development is gradual not wild.

What does it take for hobie to order a few roles of 6 mm swiftcord over 5 mm excel racing dyneema ? Even in the shops the difference is not much.

There is just no reason to not go with the times; neither from performance or production reasons.

One more thing, one poster commented about student not being able to pay for it. Which students ? This is a rich mans sport, always was. If you pay for a new tiger than you can pay dor new sails every two years. How many competitive marathon runners you see using the same pair of shoes for years ? It simply costs money to be competitive OR it takes alot of time. Afterall, it wouldn't be the first time that a very skilled sailor on an okay baot beat all the money boats by just sailing better.

Last I heard was Darren Bundock was sailing with dacron sails during the 2004 European championships. He got 1st there. WITH DACRON SAILS ! And he is 3rd in the Olympics now with the same sail dacron suit ex equo with Booth using some super expensive cuben fibre suit. Lovell with the same cuben fibres is still only 2nd with a few points less.

All I hear all over the forums is how formula is an arms race and expensive not to mention bad on the normal sailors.

That is just BS. A stealth F16 is 10.500 Euro's, hung with the Taipans during the DCC, while the standard single trapeze Hobie 16 is 10.300 Euro's and is blown out of the water ? Which is expensive ?

Mainsails ! Mine costed 1200 Euro's with battens and transport from Aus. Hobie Tiger Hong Kong main = 1450 Euro ex battens ! Fittings and rudderstocks. Inter 20 alu rudderstocks 375 Euro without the top part. Mine full carbon complete rudderstock incl shipping and complete from Aus 175 Euro's.

Hell, you can buy the newest go fast Tiger F18 main from landenberger for 1500 Euro's and it is well worth the 50 Euro price difference.

There is no arms race in the way it is often presented. Just slow gradual development that is available to all sailor the next season for very normal prices. And nearly all of these are either the same price or cheaper than their OD altenatives. Why do you think not many are buying Hobie mains ? Not because the of market alternatives are more expensive.

Besides the only cat classes that are worth their salt internationally are overwhelmingly open rule classes :

Tornado
A-class
Formula 18
Maxi-cat
ORMA tris/cats

Only exception being the Hobie 16's

There is a reason for that and it is not that people like paying more.

Wouter

Bob,
I am not sure I agree with your statement that open competitive sails from different lofts are much more expensive then factory supplied sails. For example, an A class mainsail delivered to my door from any one of 5-6 competitive lofts in Australia, Europe or the US is about 1400$, some of these come with battens. These sails are awesome quality, far better then anything that came out of the big 2 cat companies in the US. For comparison’s sake how much does a new Inter 17 mainsail + battens cost? Is it significantly cheaper? Does it have the same competitive lifespan?

What about dagger boards? If I crushed both my dagger boards, it would cost about 550$ US to replace them both. How much is an I-17 board? Is it a lot cheaper then 275$ each?

I would argue that a Formula class like the F-18 is probably cheaper in the long run then the equally equipped single manufacturer one design.

Eric Anderson

For comparison, the new Nacra 6.0NA main sail I purchased from Performance last year was about $1600 with battens.

Are you debating
planned economy VS open market???
We all know how that went...

Not that I'm trying to back Hobie or anybody here, but I want to see the answer I get to this question. I know what the answer is, but.... seems like some people have a preconceived notion.

Does anybody really know who designs/builds tiger sails?

The Tiger sails are built by one of the better lofts in Italy. Zuccoli Ullman. Mains, Jibs, Spinnakers. Not Hong Kong, not "factory".

Same loft that built the newest mains used (and won) at the F18 Worlds. This is the mainsail that is a possible new change for the Tiger Class.

The class will be looking at how to manage the Tiger class vs. F18 issue a little better. Certainly the F18 class conflicts with the basic Hobie Cat philosophy in many ways. How do we stay on top as manufacturers while not alienating our current boat owners with constant changes? There are a lot of folks that cannot, or do not want to, spend so much money on new upgraded sails and parts again and again. Then again, there are those that will.

No offense Matt, just putting the dots on the i's


Matt wrote :

The Tiger sails are built by one of the better lofts in Italy. Zuccoli Ullman. ... Same loft that built the newest mains used (and won) at the F18 Worlds. This is the mainsail that is a possible new change for the Tiger Class.


Meaning : So it is true, the hired professionals do not sail with stock Tiger sails.


>>The class will be looking at how to manage the Tiger class vs. F18 issue a little better.


Meanning : Tiger OD will go the way of F18 in ever increasing ways as there is no reason why the F18 would stop developping or even roll back the developments of the last years. That would piss off a huge F18 following only to aid a handful of OD Tiger owners that aren't even in the F18 class in any serious way.


>>Certainly the F18 class conflicts with the basic Hobie Cat philosophy in many ways. How do we stay on top as manufacturers while not alienating our current boat owners with constant changes?


Shouldn't this read : certainly the Tiger class and Hobie corp way of doing business conflicts with the basic F18 philosophy in many ways. How do we sell the points above to the OD tiger sailors without risking our F18 related boat sales too much by stagnating Tiger development. Afterall F18 is driving Tiger sales; not the OD Tiger class. Stagnation means a slow but certain death. The continious upgrades kept Tiger in the F18 game.


>>There are a lot of folks that cannot, or do not want to, spend so much money on new upgraded sails and parts again and again. Then again, there are those that will.


Shouldn't this read : The lastest developments in the European Tiger class (7 at Dutch nationals, cancelled Europeans) signal that "There are a lot of folks that cannot or do not want to spend so much money" to keep switching their Tiger F18 to a Tiger OD setup and back; they choose to go F18 instead. Only a handfull who have never made the upgrades will come to Tiger OD events and these are almost exclusively recreational sailors without any serious commitment to either the F18 class racing or Tiger OD class racing. Afterall there are only a handful of Tiger OD events in Europe. 3 or 4 Nationals and 1 Europeans per year and a worlds every two years. On the other hand there are tens of F18 events all over the place with 10+ fleets and a F18 worlds every year. In some area's there is an F18 event every second weekend. This makes for a difficult choice.



In all honesty the only way this can work out is when Tiger OD class become a sort of tornado class.

All boats must measure in to certain hull templates and there are some (general) limits on mast and beam profiles as well as the boards and materials you may use. Apart from that all F18 compliant features must be allowed. Meaning that continious changes are allowed as well.

Hobie Corp can then continiously sell the current F18 grade sails with their boats and nobody has to go out and buy a new set of sails. This safes alot of money. If they do the same with sheet lines and fittings than the F18 AND Tiger OD combo will work.

If this doesn't happen than a choice has to be made between Tiger F18 or Tiger OD. The third option is of course "doing nothing" but that will end with the Tiger F18 coming out on top as the sailors have already made their opinions clear by their Tiger OD event attendence.

Now I do understand that the Tiger OD has a head start in USA and can risk it. But in the bigger scheme of things the 800 pound heavyweight is Europe and risking it there is not very wise. Australia and other area's are pretty much leaning towards F18 already mostly because they are far more accustomed to relaxed OD classes where only big things are ruled upon (like Tornado's).

Now, seriously I like to see the Tiger around for many years, trully. That is why I hope that the OD-ers realize that they are fighting a losing battle here and needlessly trying to make the Tiger into something that it never was and never will be. Or that their claim of "armsraces are expensive" has been debunked many times. It is not much more expensive if more expensive at all than being TRULLY competitive in an OD class. In contrast to just thinking that you are while you are really NOT.

The thing that strikes my over and over is the fact that we had many many many OD classes and all have vanished over the last decade or about to vanish. Just recently I heard that the Dart 18 will not be produced anymore from 2005 onward. This leaves pretty much only the H16 as the last surviving OD class while the growth is definately in the A-cat/Formula/Tornado corner. Apparently the universe has decided that she wanted to walk down a different route. Saying that it isn't so won't change this.

best example I can give is yet again the Tornado class. Remember how the upgrade package was voted down by over 2/3rd of the class ? 2 years later the Tornado class has fully revived herself and there is not a single classic tornado sailing anymore. What happened to all those people in the majority that wanted to stay in the old setup (mindset) ? They switched themself in the first 12 months when it was apparent that the big boys had crossed over. A handfull got out of the Tornado's only to be replaced by more newcomers.

That is the situation before you.

Now I will get off my soap box. My appologies for any harsh statements I may have made. Matt, seriously, nothing against you or Hobie personally.

Wouter

where are the OD Tiger fleets? All I can find are the F18 sailors/promoters.

David Mosley
F18 on the way(NACRA) why? price more than anything else, but formula racing seems to be the way of the future. The Tiger is a beautiful boat, I hope Hobie and IHCA will make a good decision about this, unlike the decision of "Hobie Only" of past.

Wouter wrote :

>>Meaning : So it is true, the hired professionals do not sail with stock Tiger sails<<

Well... it was an F18 event right? Not a Tiger event. It is accepted that F18 is open. Of course they will use the latest stuff.

There is still (and growing in the USA and Australia amongst other regions) a strong following in the Tiger one design World wide. This, by the way, is governed by the International Hobie Class Association and ISAF, not the factories. We have to be sensitive to that.

We are now having the 4th Worlds right? This one will be very well attended... all Tiger one design.

There is no intention of rolling back any developements, but there is a problem for manufacturing with ever changing design (as well as a problem selling it). Just look at the flack over the Nacra F17 changes. It is not an easy balance for us either, because are possibly left with outdated inventory if things change too fast.

It is difficult on the sailors and the manufacturers either way this goes.

Wouter wrote :

>>>>Meaning : So it is true, the hired professionals do not sail with stock Tiger sails<<

>Well... it was an F18 event right? Not a Tiger event. It is accepted that F18 is open. Of course they will use the latest stuff.


That is not the point Matt. The point deals with the comment made by Mike Hill earlier: "I didn't read anything on the site about the mainsail. However I can't imagine that the current sail is slower seeing as it has won the F18 classes consistently"

Obviously the stock sails didn't win anything (apart from a Tiger OD race) as the winners never used these in open format races like F18 races or regatta's like Round Texel.

This is part of the misconception that is perpetuated by the current "Tiger F18 as well as Tiger OD" setup.

While it is true that the Tiger OD is a compliant F18 the reverse is not true and never was. The Tiger F18 is all dominant in results while the Tiger OD is not. Sadly a lot of people accidently or intentionally confuse the two for various reasons.



>>There is still (and growing in the USA and Australia amongst other regions) a strong following in the Tiger one design World wide. This, by the way, is governed by the International Hobie Class Association and ISAF, not the factories. We have to be sensitive to that.


Matt, The F18 class is an ISAF class as well. They have to comply with the same rulesets as the Tiger OD class. They are succesful and don't report issues with the ISAF organisation so why does the Tiger OD have them ?

My answer is because the F18 is NOT amending their rules that often. Their rules allow variation in the designs while the Tiger OD class rules try to limit changes that are inevitable. The problem is not ISAF but the mindset of the IHCA that want to make the Tiger class into a spinnaker equipped Hobie 16 class.

Sure IHCA can do that but then the Tiger will loose its F18 marketshare or a split will occur between Tiger OD and Tiger F18 classes. A split that will in my opinion will see the F18 side win.

Also, the signs are that F18 is US and AUS is growing faster and more strongly then Tiger OD class. Afterall the other builder will do their best to keep this segment of boats open to there products; they are not going to let Hobie corner the market for themselfs. And because of the price difference between the imported Tiger and the homemade Nacra F18 I think that Hobie corp should be careful on the US market. It won't take much to turn around fortunes.


>>We are now having the 4th Worlds right? This one will be very well attended... all Tiger one design.

When will the next Tiger worlds be ? In less then 12 months we'll have the next F18 worlds. I'm not saying that Tiger class should not have their own worlds just that it will for ever take second place to the F18 worlds. Both in attendence and standing. Simply because quite a few top sailors either don't sail a Tiger or don't sail a Tiger OD.

Sure Booth and Bundock will get a Tiger OD shoved under their butts with a envelop containing wages+expenses but we won't see Mourniac there (3 times 2nd at F18 worlds) or any other top sailor without a Hobie contract.

In addition, there is not much else going on with respect to Tiger OD. Seriously for this year 2004 a Tiger OD enthousiast could go to the Dutch nationals, the German nationals and the French nationals. No Europeans (cancelled), No worlds or even any other Tiger OD race.

Ohh scrap the Dutch nationals please. At http://www.hobiehotnews.nl/ we are informed that (translated from Dutch):


"Last year we had to do without the many famous Tiger sailors and the participation was less than hoped for.

A major but not only cause was the need to rebuild the boats to standard Hobie Tiger

This year we would like to try if we can attract the Hobie Tigers with a different formula.

On 27.28 and 29 august is the Tiger F18 is seperate class on the Hobie Dutch Championship (NK) in Scheveningen. The boats will not have to be converted back and the racing will be done under F18 rules; of course all boats must still be of Hobie Tiger in origin"

Now I can look up the German and French nationals but I really won't bother. With the cancellation of the Tiger OD Europeans I think the general gist of things will be clear.



>>There is no intention of rolling back any developements, but there is a problem for manufacturing with ever changing design (as well as a problem selling it).


Well nacra is doing it. Hell alot of people are still buying Tiger even when they have to rebuild them to F18 specs.

It just won't fly with me that Hobie can't make a buck out of that. Just slap on 1500 Euro's on the base price and all the customers to decide what they want on their boats. Afterall; Hobie corp is ALREADY supplying all the upgrade gear like selftackers to upgraders. How hard would it be to order a few sails from Landenberger or even the new set of Ullman. How much more would it cost. It is not like Hobie bought 1000 mainsails some 4 years back that still need to be "handed out". I don't beleive that.

And buying a few roles of the new generation lines should not be an issue either. You can still use the old line on your Hobie 16's and FX-ones.

Seriously these are not strong reasons.

If I may be harsh I think the real reason is that Hobie wants to have it both ways. They want to sell boats on the OD status to people who are first made nervous by arms race talk and sell boats on wins in F18 races to people who just want to have a competitive boat.

I think this fairy tale is coming to an end. Right now US sailors spend much less money on a competitive Nacra F18 than on a OD Tiger that is okay in F18 races. And in Europe none seriously considers the Tiger OD class when buying a Tiger. here Tigers are sold as base platforms to F18's racing.

Besides. what are you saying to the nervous sailors scared of development ? well you are not actually saying it; to be precise. You write on the forums and posters how Tiger won this and that while never mentioning that these are not Tiger OD boats but the very much continiously developped Tiger F18's !

So what are these people buying into ? A Tiger OD race cirquit ? None exists in Europe, I doubt it does anywhere else except in some form in the US. A Tiger OD that is competitive in the F18 class ? Sorry, not without the upgrades. A good boat for less money. ? Not anymore; Tigers are no cheaper then others. In fact; in some area's others are cheaper.

No, you are increasingly selling them a story.

That is your business and to some extend none of my business but I would like to put up an argument for the "other side".

It is not without reason that people on the beaches mention to me that they like my posts on the forum and often )not always) agree with what is being written. You can brush me off as Wouter having a particular view but that will skip over sailors and RC-members that have expressed differently. And please remember I volunteered and did RC work on a Hobie OD nationals as well. So I've been up close. Even then the turn was less than was possible with a little flexibility. I refer to the statement made regarding the Dutch nationals of the coming week.



>>Just look at the flack over the Nacra F17 changes. It is not an easy balance for us either, because are possibly left with outdated inventory if things change too fast.

The flack over the I-17/F-17 is of a different kind. There an impression of a formula class is given without there being any Formula rule set allowing manufactorers or suppliers other then Nacra. It is not even a box rule set of rules. It is merely a SMOD rule set with a confusing name.

With regard to inventory being outdate. yes I can see that can be a problem. However if Hobie makes a clear decision now that Tiger OD is a class of all boats being in origin Tigers and complying to F18 rules than a whole lot of inventory problems will disappear. You now has them in part BECAUSE you have to stock both versions to be able to cater to both sailors. Also by allowing change you won't have to order new stock of outdated sails but can order new stock of the newer sails. The development of these items is slow enough that last year sail will not be that much outclassed by the new sail. The problem of being outclasses comes from sails that are more than 2 or 3 years out of sync.

Besides if you take your sails from Zucoli (and not only bought the design of him several years ago) then you can go with the times without to much effort as I really don't think that these lofts can work up more than a few months of stock at the time.


>>It is difficult on the sailors and the manufacturers either way this goes.


Well, difficult it may be but it is also largely the result of choice made in the past. Choices that were not necessary. Same as the nacra with the I-20/I-18 mainsails. US I-18 lost out already and it appears the Europeans won't accept the US I-20 mainsails as well. With Europe being Europe in catamaran sailing this pretty much means that F18 and F20 will remain as they are and will grind down any party trying to go against the original classes.

I much rather see Tiger stay on for a while longer and be clear to the people thinking about these boats of what they can expect. With the asking prices for these boats they are entitled to that. Nor do I think that Hobie needs to worry about having a class that is not SMOD. Afterall, they are selling enough tigers to F18 crews as it is despite the double standard.

That was all. Thank you for putting up with me

Wouter

Next Tiger Worlds?

2005 Hobie Tiger Worlds

March 2005 in Santa Barbara California.



The Hobie Tiger Worlds have been held in Lake Garda twice then Singapore... now the USA next spring.

"FREE Port to Port shipping from 3 cities in Europe and 2 cities in Australia. Your boat has its ticket....now it is time for you to get yours. Europe - Bremerhaven, Rotterdam and France (loading location to be determined) Australia - Sydney and Melbourne" The USA Hobie Factory will also be offering a number of charter boats on location.

It is a shame that the F18 Worlds (always in Europe) doesn't come up with a similar shipping arrangement so the rest of the World can come.