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Re: CATS and foils [Re: Andinista] #40500
01/17/05 05:43 PM
01/17/05 05:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
It certainly looks like a lot of upper body work. In video 2, the sailor is really sawing that mainsheet (with one hand). What approximate speed would you say that moth was going?

The winds look on the light side, and the water is pretty flat. How do they fare in the heavier stuff?


Jay

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: CATS and foils [Re: Andinista] #40501
01/18/05 10:49 AM
01/18/05 10:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Andinista,

As a fellow engineer, maybe you will like the kind of information about foils available at Tom Speer's website.

If you want to search the web, the following multihull series are foilers:

Hobie Trifoiler (small trimaran, L shaped foils)
Windrider Rave (small trimaran, T shaped foils)
Catri line (cabin trimaran, Bruce foils mainly)

You may also like the site of the International Hydrofoils Society.

And perhaps you will be interested in the only South American shipyard building hydrofoil boats - Multicascos, in Maceió, Brazil. The first Catri 27 is mine.

You may write to them in English o en tu idioma (los dueños son Argentinos), ou em Portugues, porque eles vivem no Brasil há décadas.

Sds.
Luiz Schechter


Luiz
Re: CATS and foils [Re: Luiz] #40502
01/18/05 04:46 PM
01/18/05 04:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
enthusiast
Andinista  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Thanks Luiz, great information. Muchas gracias, supongo que eres de Brasil?

Re: CATS and foils [Re: Andinista] #40503
01/18/05 09:37 PM
01/18/05 09:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
supongo que eres de Brasil?


Soy Brasileño de Rio y mi educación fue en Portugues, pero no tengo inconveniente en usar el Castellano, ya que hoy vivo en Asunción y mi esposa es de acá.

Con cual bote navegas?

Saludos,
Luiz


Luiz
Re: CATS and foils [Re: waterbug_wpb] #40504
01/20/05 09:37 AM
01/20/05 09:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Im guessing 12 knots. The videos are sailing across melville water. My home water..
The waves in that area rarely get much bigger than twice that size. The wind however is generally twice the strength what you see. So the moth sailors are used to sailing in 25 knot and greater wind strengths. Here at least they dont have huge seas to content with . Other localities in the state do.

I would suggest all current foiled moths are based on standard moth hulls. The videos look like Growler hulls but I may be mistaken. These boats have a foiled plate and rudder fitted. Although many Aussie moth skippers may rip out a hull during the winter.

Mary, the choices of wings is almost personal. The reason for the fabric panel makes it easier to slide out and more comfortable in non hiking conditions. I havent seen a solid wing in years (too heavy many hulls are between 7 and 10 Kgs)
Hope this helps
Stewart

Re: CATS and foils [Re: Stewart] #40505
01/20/05 11:21 AM
01/20/05 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Doesn't help. By "solid," I was referring to the weave of the fabric on the wings. Some of the wings are a densely woven fabric, while others are a very open netting, and other wings have no covering at all. As you said, the choice is obviously personal; but on a development boat like the Moth, I'm sure the "personal" choice is related more to speed and efficiency than to comfort. That's why I asked about the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Re: CATS and foils [Re: Mary] #40506
01/21/05 04:57 AM
01/21/05 04:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Mary,
I will ask the mothies tomorrow. I do doubt that anyone has done any real tests on air drag/resistance.

a few thoughts based on observations not experience.

Having ropes slip thru the open webbing panels and potentially catching, may be an issue. I dont know but there isnt much room on a moth. Nor much stability and things happen fast. So anything that reduces the time to react will end with a swim. A main that sticks will see you swimming at least every second go-about. A kicker rope that doesnt release is a swim at the top mark.

Secondly comfort is important. As the videos show the moth is a huge workout. Fatigue is a real issue. A fatigue means a slow responce which means swim.

I know, from one sail on a slim skiff moth (yes really really experienced ), that even experienced skiff sailors will swim a few times on the way to the start line. It was a a 1km away. Thats my excuse and Im sticking to it.

Stewart

Re: CATS and foils [Re: Stewart] #40507
01/21/05 06:39 AM
01/21/05 06:39 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



This is a tangent, but what's the rationale for wings rather than trapezing (or wings+trapezing) on these boats? Do class rules prevent it?

Mark.

Re: CATS and foils [Re: ] #40508
01/24/05 09:17 AM
01/24/05 09:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Oegstgeest
Blueblast Offline
stranger
Blueblast  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Oegstgeest
There was olso this T.
Look at this side,
http://home-1.tiscali.nl/~hbsmits/hydrpic.htm

Attached Files
43440-icaruslrg.jpg (62 downloads)

Victor
New Foil moth DVD preview [Re: Blueblast] #40509
01/26/05 08:36 PM
01/26/05 08:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
John_Ilett Offline
stranger
John_Ilett  Offline
stranger

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Perth, Australia
There is a preview of a DVD that was produced from the Moth worlds a few weeks ago. http://www.moth-sailing.org/dvd/order.html

Re: CATS and foils [Re: Blueblast] #40510
01/27/05 04:08 AM
01/27/05 04:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
There was olso this T.
Look at this side,
http://home-1.tiscali.nl/~hbsmits/hydrpic.htm


A fair number of those pictures are taken directly / also apprear in "Icarus: The Boat That Flies", John Grogano


Interestinly, this boat

[Linked Image]

is incorrectly titled, it is not "Longbow", but "Blue Arrow", which was not a flying boat at all.

Blue Arrow used foils to support a single centre hull (boat needed float tanks when it was not moving or it would just fall over !)

Leaward foil was set to provide lift and windward foil was set to provide downforce and both foils stayed in the water to provide stability. THis boat looked like it was going to totally "change the Rules" of how radical boats migh be designed in the future, however the boat broke up before entering any serious races and the sponsers did not have the time/money or commitment (not sure which) to continue.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
International 14 Rudder foil [Re: John_Ilett] #40511
02/21/05 09:01 PM
02/21/05 09:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
More food for thought,
As if cat sailors need another adjustment.
http://www.i14.org/boat/articles/bieker-rudder.html

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