I also have a suggestion. The Formula 16 fits into the Formula 18 class, does it not? So if the Formula 16's don't have enough for a class as Formula 16, and if there is a Formula 18 class, why can't the 16's just register as Formula 18's and race boat for boat with the 18's? That would solve their problem at some regattas.

Hi Mary,

Average lap racing is pretty commonly used for handicap racing in the UK (and, by Dermot's post, in Ireland too). My club uses it for all our dinghy and cat racing and it's also used by SNECCA (the Scotland and North of England Catamaran Class Association) for all their events.

The fleet starts as normal and sails round the course until they're told to stop - you don't know how many laps you're going to do when you start but you may well know roughly how long (timewise) the race will be. You have to set a course with identical laps - windward/leeward, triangles, trapezoids etc are fine but the old Olympic sausage/triangle isn't a good idea. Boats must go through the finish line at the end of each lap.

The RC records the time each boat passes through the finish line. At some point they decide the race has lasted long enough and put up flag S. Everyone who crosses the finishline after that is finishing the race. The result is then worked out on an average lap time - your elapsed time divided by the number of laps you do and the handicap is then applied. It may well be that everyone does the same number of laps but this very often isn't the case, particularly if there is a big spread of handicaps. And there is no need for the boat that is leading on the water to be the first boat that gets a finish. The RC can decide to stop the race at any point - they might do that as some very slow boats are approaching the line for example.

The system usually works well. By letting fast boats do more laps than slow boats you can compress the period that boats are finishing. So it is more likely that everyone is racing in similar conditions. And in a regatta it means the fast boats may not have as much hanging around between races.

George

F16 don't really fit within the F18 rules - the F16s are much lighter than the F18 minimum weight (about 100-110 kg compared to a 175kg minimum). The F18 rules also ban carbon in any form (I think they might disqualify you if you sail with a pencil in your pocket ) and some F16s use quite a lot of that!

George

MARY, if the F16's registered as F18's they could be "protested" out of the results as they dont conform to the "minimum weight" rule for F18's
RICK, OH THE JOYS OF THE ORGANISERS/OFFICIALS OF A REGATTA/RACE, you of all people should know that you can NEVER be right in the eyes of the competitors and your only recourse after the event is to have confidence in you decisions and treat with amusement any unwarented critisism. If you respond, your wrong and if you don't respond your also wrong. I disgruntled sailor has to have some one to blame - if they didn't, heaven forbid, they would have to take a hard long look at them selves

I had a big long answer ready, but I see that George covered all my points so I've deleted most of it.
Most race results programs have a facility to enter number of laps completed. F18s might do four laps to Dart 18s 3 laps. Before we used this system, Dart 18 and 16 sailors felt bad about making the faster cats wait around between races.
Also, if slower cats knew that there were not going to be many of their class at an event, they might not travel to that event, because of finishing a race way after the rest of the fleet.
Tactics on the beat may suffer a bit, because the fleet has to cross the start/finish line each lap, but it is usually not more than 500 yards to windward of the leeward mark.

This thing about "trophy's" RICK, if more different boats start and sail the same course, is encompassed here by awarding an appropriate number of trophys relative to the number of starters in each "division" ie for five starters in a division a first second and third trophy will be presented (across the line) and for 8 starters an additional 1st 2nd and 3rd (on handicap) will be awarded. for every additional 3 starters in that division an additional trophy (on handicap) is awarded (or a breakup for trophys in a similar way but using different numbers of boats).
Seems to satisfy most "trophy hunting" sailors down here.
Although I must say that the "truely competitive" sailor could not care less about the trophys, they are more satisfied with the knowledge that they have been competitive.

Mostly we race open class here and wait for the last boat to finish. But when for some reason it is decided that the fleet should be split we race in the following way.

Split the fleet at texelrating 110. How can I explain this threshold best ?

Prindle 18 with spi just falls into the fast fleet and Prindle 18 without a spi just falls in the slow fleet. You can now work out which boats fall in what fleet.

So, then a normal sized course is layed out so that the fast boats have sufficient room to manourvre and so that the boats will quickly spread out.

The fast fleet will than do 3 or 4 laps and the slow fleet will do 2 or 3 laps depending on the course and make up of the two fleets.

Then we have a single start. And as a direct result of the difference in laps all boats finish at about the same time. Because a Hobie 14 that is 40 % slower than a I-20 will complete a 2 lap course in about 2/3 * 1,4 = 93 % of the time a I-20 crew will complete their 3 lap course.

When so desired a combined listing can be composed by multiplying all of the slow fleet corrected times by 3/2. This is of course a variation of the averaged lap time setup. This variation allows the RC to run the races on the water without any communication with the sailors. During the skippers briefing everybody is told how many laps they have to do and that is it.

Another advantage of this setup is that changes in winds for example do not influence the handicapped scoring much as all boat spend equal amounts of time on the water and so experience the same changes in conditions and to the same magnitude.

This setup is therefor also a trick to make handicap racing more accurate.

But best part is that you have a single start and a grouped finish of all boats within a span of say 15 minutes after 45 minutes racing. So with this system you have a turn around time of 65 minutes while doing 45 minute races.

It is very difficult for staggered start sequences to have a turn around time that is less than this particular averaged lap time setup.

And of course no-one, from the best I-20 crew to best H14 sailor, is waiting longer than about 10-15 min for the fleet to finish and the start of the sequence for the next start.

It is actually a good setup and sailors seem quite happy with it.


Wouter

Dermot, thanks for the explanation about average laps. I have not heard of that being done in this country.

And, George, you're right. I forgot about the minimum weight for the F-18. Oh, well.

Can't speak to the issue of sailor attitude, but I think the cost of the Taipan in the US has been a significant impediment for F16 in the US. It will be interesting to see what happens now that the Blade is becoming available.

On a different subject only slightly related, am I right that there were no I17Rs at Tradewinds? I was a bit surprised since I believe they have a pretty strong presence in the US, though perhaps more in the midwest? Too far to travel?

Rick,

Perhaps Wouter's proposal is straying into inappropriate territory (though his request for others' opinions is admirable). However he has attempted to offer some degree of analysis to support his concerns. Do you have an opinion about the different way that Texel and VYC positions the Taipan compared with the way that USPN does? Can we take it from your comments that you think they are too generous in their estimation of Taipan/F16 performance? Is there something about their approach to rating that you think creates this situation?

Mark.

I think I'm pretty much forced to post a reply to Ricks post. I will let most comments as they are but I will react to the following statements :





Anybody who cares to check up on the 2004 race results will see that next to Jennifer and Kelly the Taipan sailors Seth Stern, Gordon Isco, Hollis Caffee as well as Chuck and Mavis Harnden regulary attend races in Florida. That is more than I can say for a score of classes.

In addition all of these were at the Alter Cup qualifier for Area D south (florida etc) and raced in doublehanded F16 format as the second largest segment, together with F18's, both with 3 entries. The US I-20's were biggest with a staggering 6 entries. Supposedly huge racing classes like Hobie 16 and Hobie 18 proved their worth in Florida terms with 2 entries each. The single nacra 5.5 uni completed the listing. All other classes were not even represented. Among its racing peers F16's ended up at 1st, 6th and 15th position in this 17 boat open class fleet. This is the second win of the Area D qualifier series (covering also Florida) by a Taipan, Kirt Simmons from Alabama of course being the first. I think for the young and small class that we arguably are (exchange rates really didn't help us in the last 2 years), we are making a mark beyond our size.

I'm not going to quote all race results or provide an attendence list of F16 crews over the last year. But I will provide as second counterproof that F16 class has succeeded in creating a totally NEW builder of catamarans in the USA and one with a seriously promising product as well. When was the last time that happened ? I trust that these two examples alone show that the quotes given earlier are not really supported by facts.


Now I respect Rick personal opinion and I do realize that everybody may have a different take on the same situation. It is not the intend of this posting to argue otherwise. It is the intend of this post to show the casual reader that other appreciations are very much possible.

Of course that is when only looking at the South East of the the USA. We have additional action going on in for example California as well as 4 other continents in the world. The next F16 event being in Singapore on 12 and 13 Feb 2005. Something not even the dominant class in Florida, the US I-20 class can claim.

I think I will leave it at that.

Regards,

Wouter

Seth and Gordon Ripping it up during a gibe. And I mean "some muscles" when frantically climbing up to the luff hull. You guys came close to dipping it in there !












But what good luck we Northern Hemisphere guys are only sailing on sheltered lakes and in light winds ehh ?

Show us how it is done Boys !




And once again [color:"red"] Roy Laughlin [/color] makes the best pictures of all !

Take a look at his site and the other pics of Tradewinds he took.

http://www.floridamultihullsailor.com/


Wouter

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Bump

Wouter