Steve,

Thanks for your response. First of all, if I am being a "smart butt", so are you. I am just trying to puncture your demogogery with some sarcasm; probably not a good idea, as demogogues rarely see the humor in being pricked.



I am in dispair, truly, if you think all the ills such as low fleet membership, low regatta attendance are the results of NAHCA's and Hobie's policies. It seems to be the essence of your comments. This position is so single minded and oblivious to the many other changes that have occured in our society over the last 25 years that it boggles the mind. I'm not being sarcastic here. If many believe this position, we (the catamaran sailing community) don't have a chance to improve our lot significantly.



I still don't understand your logic regarding showing up at a Hobie regatta with an I20 and not being welcomed. Without taking sides as to whether or not this was the right choice for that fleet to make or whether or not it was nice, I would guess that the fleet didn't plan for an open class and therefore had no class in which to put you. It seems similar to me showing up at a Lightning regatta with a Thistle or 49r and expecting to race; or showing up at a Tornado regatta with my H20 and expecting to race. I wouldn't expect to do so. As far as I know most regattas mention in their NOR whether or not they are hosting an open class.



In point #3, you miss the point; the suggestion to exclude other cats (unfortunate, I agree) is not why NAHCA is considered the 800 lb. gorilla, it is as I stated, because of the size of the racing organization. The same logic applies to point #5. I don't discount the other organizations you mention, but if the Hobie racing structure did not have so much influence on cat sailors and so many were not in need of the structure, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because no one would give a rat's a** what NAHCA did. The heated discussions on this bulletin board are evidence of how much the policies of NAHCA's racing structure effect sailors.



On point #8, I will echo Greg Scace's comments about the inclusiveness working in Division 11; I live in Greg's area. And our local fleet has members who don't sail Hobies. We don't make them sit in the back of the bus.



On point #9, the fleets that hold a regatta have their money on the line; not the entrants. The entrants come to the regatta, pay to get and in and sail. If the NOR includes an open fleet, the open boats come; if not, they don't.



Point #10, I love one-design racing (as I am sure do most Tornado sailors). I have raced portsmouth most of my life and get tired waiting for hours to know how I did. I have no problems with one-design regattas; they exist beyond Hobies in cats and monohulls.



Lastly, I got it! Your point is that you want to make all Hobie regattas to host an open class. In effect having all brands piggy back on the NAHCA structure. That's OK, but I don't agree. I will admit that current economics works in favor of your position. I would also council you that what you are seeking is fundamental change of the NAHCA organization. Such a change will not come about in a revolutionary way; with a frontal attack. Such a change could only come about in an evolutionary way. By attacking NAHCA and the Hobie organization, you only harden positions, when what you want to do is make them more flexible.



I hope this dialogue moves beyond this issue and goes forward about what another national organization can really do for cat sailing. Over the years, I have found that change comes as much from individual efforts done locally as from national groups that make pronouncements.



Have a good evening.

David Nees

David,



Thank you for your reply. Your comments may have been taken out of context. If they where I apologize, sometimes there is a fine line between sardonic and sarcastic.





I do not believe that NAHCA is the cause of low attendence. WE ALL ARE at fault. The continuning fracture that is evident is to blame. Let me answer a few of your comments in line





I still don't understand your logic regarding showing up at a Hobie regatta with an I20 and not being welcomed.



@@ David not logic fact! I was made to feel second class by quite a few of the H sailors in attendence. As always the people that remembered us from years past where happy to see us and brought forth all that is good about "the hobie way of life". However, those that did not remember us as sailing a different boat at this regatta -- saw us as "them"



Without taking sides as to whether or not this was the right choice for that fleet to make or whether or not it was nice, I would guess that the fleet didn't plan for an open class and therefore had no class in which to put you.



@@ Actually, there was an "open" class -- it just had 3 I20's (all of us traveled together) and a few 14's and waves. The thing that really was insulting is that we traveled 300 miles by invitation!!



In point #3, you miss the point; the suggestion to exclude other cats (unfortunate, I agree) is not why NAHCA is considered the 800 lb. gorilla, it is as I stated, because of the size of the racing organization. The same logic applies to point #5. I don't discount the other organizations you mention, but if the Hobie racing structure did not have so much influence on cat sailors and so many were not in need of the structure, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because no one would give a rat's a** what NAHCA did. The heated discussions on this bulletin board are evidence of how much the policies of NAHCA's racing structure effect sailors.



@@@ David not exactly, if it was any fleet blantantly saying ? suggestioning exclusion -- I'd be complaining. I'm just louder about Nahca because I am a NAHCA member!!





On point #8, I will echo Greg Scace's comments about the inclusiveness working in Division 11; I live in Greg's area. And our local fleet has members who don't sail Hobies. We don't make them sit in the back of the bus.



@@ David thats great for division 11. I just wish every H fleet did it the sameway. Actually, every fleet that does it 11's way should call up NAHCA and say "Whoa!! Look at this and help them work others into the "Hobie way of life" no matter what they sail. David I guess what really chaps my butt here is that Hobie regattas have always been fun for me, my friends, and family --- Any attempt to tell someone that they are not welcome just lessens us all.



On point #9, the fleets that hold a regatta have their money on the line; not the entrants. The entrants come to the regatta, pay to get and in and sail. If the NOR includes an open fleet, the open boats come; if not, they don't.



@@ My comment was more along the lines what if someone else underwrote the regatta other than the fleet?



Point #10, I love one-design racing (as I am sure do most Tornado sailors). I have raced portsmouth most of my life and get tired waiting for hours to know how I did. I have no problems with one-design regattas; they exist beyond Hobies in cats and monohulls.



@@ Agreed so have I and I hate the same thing thats why I have been outspoke about "Formula" racing. Is it for everyone? No but, it becomes an option.



Lastly, I got it! Your point is that you want to make all Hobie regattas to host an open class. In effect having all brands piggy back on the NAHCA structure.



@@ Well, your half way there. I would like to see every regatta host multihull starts. David for me its much larger than a Hobie, Nacra, Tornado --etc thing. I'd love to see the local monohull clubs host starts for cats -- score them portsmouth, they already do it for everything else.





That's OK, but I don't agree. I will admit that current economics works in favor of your position. I would also council you that what you are seeking is fundamental change of the NAHCA organization.



@@ Agreed



Such a change will not come about in a revolutionary way; with a frontal attack. Such a change could only come about in an evolutionary way.



@@ Disagreed, We have worked for years to get a change. Look at what just happened in NAHCA. The oldtimer hardliners just ousted the best asset that Hobie racing had in GA. These people are living in the past.



By attacking NAHCA and the Hobie organization, you only harden positions, when what you want to do is make them more flexible.



@@ Like I said above we (lots of us) have tried for years to help things change. Then boom!! Fearmongers ran tons of unrealistic stuff up the flagpole. SOld the it was like this in the good old days -- it will be like that again -- bag of goods. And what is really depressing is that fear won out over logic and numbers!!! Have you been to the Lake Hartwell regatta??? It was truley the closest thing to the way "Hobie" sailing use to be and fearmongers just shot the guy who put it together in the head (figuratively).





I hope this dialogue moves beyond this issue and goes forward about what another national organization can really do for cat sailing. Over the years, I have found that change comes as much from individual efforts done locally as from national groups that make pronouncements.



@@ Agreed, But people have to have a direction and help. NAMSA could do this if we (individuals) work out the kinks and sell our local people on the ideas.



NAHCA really has nothing to fear from a "brother" organization that bridges the gaps between the classes. Hell, it was the manufacturers that made those gaps in the first case. Lets be adult and put the fear of other boats behind us.



Wishing you and yours a happy holiday season.

Steve

Oh you bleeding hearts! If you do not like NAHCA (or what they are doing) then do not support them and if you feel shunned at a Hobie regatta do not support them. I sail Hobie’s and non-Hobies and have never felt shunned, yet I realize the challenges of running a regatta and help anyway I can. When they don’t have a start for my non-hobies I don’t complain I volunteer to be a timer or something, of course they greatly appreciate my help which increases my connection with their fleet. You would be amazed what you get with a little sugar instead of vinegar. So, get your non-hobie general organization going if you believe so strongly in your ideas. What I have found though is most peoples ideas and plans are 90% lip service and no action, and what I have found with the NAHCA is 90% action and 10% no action. Great people, great organization, and great company no matter what connection they have to the association and that is why I will remain a member for many years. Once again, get your ideas and non-hobie organization going and show me an organization that can do more than NAHCA (& IHCA) and promote Cat sailing better. I do think US Sailing Association Multihull Council is also doing a great job, seems they are doing more each year to support our form of sailing. Actually, I would love to see an organization that helps you poor non-Hobie sailors, because your sailing life must just be terrible, or that is the impression I am getting. Live it and do it!