Has anyone tried to do this simple setup?

It'll work (it's exactly how the trapeze was set up on my first Condor back in '74) BUT, we improved it IMHO by taking the bungee up over a small block on the end of the wire (above the cleat) and then down to the ring. Also you probably need a T or L handle or similar above the cleat.

I found increasing the "2 to 1" purchase shown, to a purchase using "3 to 1" makes "one handed" lifting of sailor doable/easier on the wire. "Coke or Pepsi?"

Looking at that Tornado photo, I noticed that the bungi cord has what looks like a wierd fitting on the end. What kind of part is that? Where can I find it?

Thanks for the replies folks.

Yes it will work.

I use dogbones on my boat and have the setup you have drawn. In light airs you just pull the ring up to increase the tension in the bungee to get the trapeze line hang really straight. I prefer to lift myself up before going in, makes sliding over the hunwhale easier as well as getting out easier.

I'm using dyneema 3 mm high tensile line instead of wire and I only need a small amount of tension to have my trapeze line hang straight.

With dogbones you don't even need the little pully and shackle I just let the line run through the upper loop of the dogbone. That is low frictions enough.

When I get to my boat I will make a picture of it and send it to you Robi. This will take a week. The way I've done on it and that is very similar to what you have drawn results in the cheapest trapeze lines that are also the lightest while maintaining great adjustability.

Wouter

Is there enough stretch/travel on the bungee so it doesn't snap?

Wyatt

Robi,
The fitting at the end of the bungee on the Tornado is a Marstrom block that also helps seat/position the Marstrom ring. Check with Carla at Coconut Grove sails for availability. She's great to work with.
Todd A. Hart

NO! It does NOT work properly.
It CANNOT work properly.
Many people have bought boats with a trapeze rigged that way because the previous owner did not know what they where doing.

The purpose of a trapeze is to get the crew weight as far out and as low as possible. (Look at the Tornado picture)
Trap rings are usually set at, or slightly above, the gunnel of the boat.

The purpose of the bungy line is to store the trapeze in an easily accessible position
AND provide an upward pull to tension the ring in the harness.

In that design;
If the ring is set in the proper location, there is very little tension on the bungy to hold the trap in the proper storage location.
There is NO tension to hold the ring to the harness while hooking up.
Instead, it is trying to pull the ring out of the harness as you are moving off the boat. SPLASH!!!

If the ring is raised to provide tension, the crew WILL NOT be in the best position.


Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Look at the Murrays.com catalogue, page 49 http://www.murrays.com/archive/49.pdf
Look at other boats on shore.
Look at other boats racing.
Most importantly, look at the winners. If something worked, at least one of them would be doing it.

Sam, I think you are confused with the drawing. The bungi is NOT used in the system, it is there just store it all when NOT in use.

Let me try to explain.
Trap wire comes from the top section of the mast.
Connects to a shackle
Cleat (NOT a cam cleat) connects to the shackle.
Bungi cord can be connected to the same shackle as above.
2:1 purchase line goes through cleat.
same purchase line goes down to a small single block attached to the handle, or in Wouters case goes through the dog bone, back up to the cleat.
Line goes through cleat, and the bitter end will have the stopper ball, so you can pull on it, or so you do not go splash.

According to a few folks here, it will work. I am confident enough it will work.

Actually Robi it will work but not as well as other systems. Sam is right. The bunji should create pressure on the trap handle so that it stays in contact with the hook. If it just dangles there it can come unhooked as you go out.

Plus I don't see a T handle that will help you pull yourself back onto the boat. You can grab the cleat but a T-handle would work better to get back on.

Mike Hill
Tiger #1520

I think I should elaborate on the topic here. As apparently I use a system that some-one thinks can never work.

My rings are indeed slightly above the gunnel of the boat But I still have sufficient bungee pressure on the traplines.



I do use 4 mm bungee now that runs underneath my tramp (and inside my mainbeam) 3 times ! See picture. I sew little blocks underneath my trampoline and under an angle a shown (this to prevent the bungee rubbing on itself. The bungee cord than comes up through the tramp via grommets. This way there is 5 mtr of 4 mm bungee cord attached to the trapeze instead of only 2 mtr 5mm or 4mm. This allows you to pull the trapeze out by at least 2.5 mtr without increasing the pull force in any significant way. In reverse it takes in similar amounts without losing much pulling force at all. In my particular setup I tested it to 5 mtr pull-out and it still worked as planned. It is important to keep the little blocks running smoothly though. Do it like this and don't worry to much about the loss of pulling force.


>>The purpose of the bungy line is to store the trapeze in an easily accessible position
AND provide an upward pull to tension the ring in the harness.

"No problem" on the first and "its good enough on the second. I find that the inward pull pulls the top of the ring towards the trampoline and thus keeps the ring in the hook when the length is more or less adjusted properly for getting out. It does so less than the more cenventional vertical bungee cords to pull on the adjustment line but I personally go in and out high and drop lower when out so I don't think much of this supposed problem. It is however important to have some distance between the baring surface of the ring/hook and the attachment of the bungee. This to allow it to angle. So the other systems allow more leeway in this but your system should give you enough pull upward to prevent the ring from dropping out. I'm happy. But than again I don't lead the bungees all the way to the gunnal but have them come out of the mainbeam (far in front) and out from the trampoline (some distance inward) I think this helps keeping the ring in the hook


>>If the ring is raised to provide tension, the crew WILL NOT be in the best position.

Somebody is forgetting that the trapezes drawn are adjustable in length while out.


However if this setup falls than there is a very easy fix. Just shackle two small blocks to one another and let the bungee run through the lower one while the cleat adjustment line runs through the top one. This will give you the old system again. I had this in mind if mine system should have failed. I haven't converted yet nor do I think I will do so. See picture.

So my approach was just try it and see it it works and if not than I can always modify it to the old system. You can walk the same path.

Wouter

Robi, didn't your trapeze wires come with handles on them? You don't show any in your sketch.

Yep they include T handles, and the bungi runs from one side to another under the tramp. I thought I did not have to demostrate those details. But the boat included a "Normal" trapeze system.

Come to think of it. If the shackle is smooth and round on the inside than you have replace the bungee past the green bead for a line and run that Through the shackle (not have the shackle attached to the ring) and thus has a very close approximation of the more conventional system. Same working but without the cost of an extra small block. You could event replace the small block and shackle for a small stainless steel ring and run both lines through that and go cheaper still. The ring must be small enough to not let the bead through.

Wouter

In this photo you can see Gary using what seems to look like the system I am describing.

Although some say it will not work, here you can see someone using it just fine.

http://www.pksc.com.au/images/Kembla%20Kup%202005/KK%20F16-4.JPG

Yeah - but you can't see what the guys were talking about above. It is important that the bunji provides upward force on the dogbone (or ring....whatever) when the system is at rest. That way if you are in 'almost' trapeze conditions and you are sitting on the hull but hooked in with intent to pop out on a moments notice - the bunji helps keep the dogbone pulled upwards and engaged in your trapeze hook. It is unclear in your original drawing if the bunji does this but this site does sell the complete trapeze kit (including v-jam cleat and handles) that is close to what you have drawn.

Robi, what are you trying to accomplish? Are you saying that the "normal" trapeze system you got with the boat was not adjustable while on the wire and you are trying to figure out a simple way to make it adjustable without adding any parts?

Have you sailed the boat yet with the trapeze system set up in its "normal" configuration?

A new boat is kind of like moving into a new house -- you need to live with it awhile before you figure out how to best arrange the furniture and where to hang the pictures.

Robie,

What the guys are saying about the dog bone needing to provide an upward pull to tension the ring in the harness is correct and one of the most important aspects of a good trapeze set up.

Your system will work if you lift the ring a foot or so from the deck and lower yourself down every time you go out but this is impractical. To trap at the correct hight your ring should be (when pulled down) between about an inch of deck level to 7 inches below when the breeze is steady, waves are not too high and you can trap very low without getting smashed off trap.

Without the pully being higher or your ring way off deck level, your dog bone WILL pul out of the harness.

If in doupt, watch the Tornado guys. The top guys are full time professionals and spent a LOT of time working on user friendy and the quickest systems out there. Their career and hundreds of thousands of dollars are on the line. If you are thinking it....... Chances are they have been there, done that and already refined it to near perfection.

Cheers mate and good sailing to you.

Exactly you cannot adjust it while on the wire. The boat included enough parts where all I would need is the cleats. That would be it, to incorporate the design, that I drew. Not that this is an entireley new design, it has been used.

Yes I have, and I am not happy with it "as is" the reason for change.

Not necessarily true, as soon as I saw the boat, I mentioned to Matt a few changes that I would make to its simple layout. The boat is rigged perfectly, but there is NOTHING wrong with making personal changes.