The question is... is it boats 6.0 meters and over or just over 6.0 meters?

It was my understanding it's the latter, and therefore a flag does NOT have to be flown on the 20 or the 6.0.

Anyone know for sure?

Dave

If less than 6 meters, she need not display a red flag. The Nacra (Inter 20) is 6.10 meters.

Rick Bliss

Rick, that's good to know. We have never heard of it before, and our Nacra 6.0 is about 15 years old. Should we be replacing straps and bolts?

I don't disagree with the length of the boat - it's the point that when a competitor breaks a rule and knows it, intentional or not, protested or not, there is a way to exonerate yourself. Didn't used to be - once upon a time, if you broke a rule, you were required to gracefully retire.

And for protests and hearings, there is a simple, established procedure. In this case:

1 - protest was filed by a competitor against two teams.

2 - hearing was held in which both protested teams agreed they had not sailed the proper course. Protest was not disallowed, facts were found, 20-minute penalty assesed in lieu of DSQ.

To reopen the protest, someone has to file based on new facts that were not brought forth in the original hearing. Then there has to be another hearing with the interested parties present. The stated reason reported by Rick from the beach doesn't meet the procedural requirements and it sounds like there wasn't a hearing, just a reversal.

Also, you won't find too many certified judges these days that are willing to disallow a protest before hearing the whole thing first. If I were at the table, I'd want to know if there were a hail, if there were a flag, if the protested teams were close enough to see or hear the protestor, when the protested teams were notified upon reaching the checkpoint, etc. It used to be that judges looked for a reason to disallow a protest as quickly as possible to end a hearing at the first opportunity - they're specifically taught now to NOT do that. It was engendering a lot of competitor resentment and a feeling of summary judgement without both sides being heard.

Dave and Tami are right - if an interested party at the event decides it isn't worth the trouble to file to reopen the hearing now that the original ruling has been reversed, then we spectators must assume that it isn't a big deal and all the speculation from the cheap comfortable seats doesn't amount to much.

Wish we could get some info on progress, but it's practically impossible to see this portion of the race... I always hated this leg - without a phone call from the boat, everyone on the beach is just in the dark!

I don't think it makes much sense to be required to fly a protest flag in a distance race. The purpose of the flag is supposed to be as a notice to the boat that is protested, and it is supposed to be visible to the boat that is protested. But in a distance race, you might see someone sail an improper course way ahead of you (or behind you, and you might never get close enough to that boat for them to see your protest flag or for you to hail them verbally.

John,

The way it looks at this point the judges made the right decision...although it's a bit suspect, and they managed it poorly.

As for the sailors... I can only speak for myself in saying that I would never want any accomplishment of mine tainted especially when I have complete control over it. Aren't we doing this for the respect of our peers anyway? It's not like there is $$$ involved

This is probably best moved to another thread.

Dave

61.1a(1) below may apply?

I thought when you miss a mark it is scored as a DNF not DSQ?


**********************************************
FROM RRS 2005-2008
**********************************************

61 PROTEST REQUIREMENTS
61.1 Informing the Protestee
(a) A boat intending to protest shall inform the other boat at the
first reasonable opportunity. When her protest concerns an incident
in the racing area that she is involved in or sees, she shall
hail ‘Protest’ and conspicuously display a red flag at the first reasonable
opportunity for each. She shall display the flag until she
is no longer racing. However,
(1) if the other boat is beyond hailing distance, the protesting
boat need not hail but she shall inform the other boat at
the first reasonable opportunity;
(2) if the hull length of the protesting boat is less than 6
metres, she need not display a red flag;
(3) if the incident results in damage or injury that is obvious
to the boats involved and one of them intends to protest,
the requirements of this rule do not apply to her, but she
shall attempt to inform the other boat within the time
limit of rule 61.3.
(b) A race committee or protest committee intending to protest a
boat shall inform her as soon as reasonably possible. However, if
the protest arises from an incident the committee observes in the
racing area, it shall inform the boat after the race within the
time limit of rule 61.3.
(c) If the protest committee decides to protest a boat under rule
60.3(a)(2), it shall inform her as soon as reasonably possible,
close the current hearing, proceed as required by rules 61.2 and
63, and hear the original and the new protests together.

Back to the Nacra 6.0, they did not break it during the start, rather they were about 20 miles into the race and they heard it go "POP" and suddenly there were the parts laying on the deck.
Rick

Hey Chris -

For that leg and for the RC-specified marks, DSQ was threatened by the Organizing Authority instead of DNF to make clear the marks were to be honored. Normally, yes, DNF is the penalty... for a leg on a race like this, though, DNF is a campaign-ending consequence just as DSQ would have been.

From homepage
>The reason given is the protesting boat did not fly a protest flag and therefore the protest was disallowed.<
http://www.catsailor.com/Tybee05/T05Leg6.htm


I would have never raised the question DNF vs DSQ, but I did NOT know a flag was mandatory/required for a DNF?

And if a flag is required why doesn't 61.1a(1)apply?
(if the trailing boats were protesting?)

61.1a(1) if the other boat is beyond hailing distance, the protesting
boat need not hail but she shall inform the other boat at the first reasonable opportunity;


I wonder how much time was saved by cutting the mark? They could have reduced the time allowance, if it was unfair.

Amen, brother.
Tracie

15 minutes ago Mark Herendeen from Spacecoast called and said his GPS ETA was 8:30 PM and he was about 20 miles out. He also pointed out that he was at the back of the pack.
So, we expect to see the leaders within the hour. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Rick

The first boat to the final finish line at Tybee Island is Coconut Grove Sails. The second boat is in sight and should be finishing in five-ten minutes.

Second boat to Tybee Island is Pirates and
Third boat is Team Tybee.

I am told that this means Team Tybee has definitely won the Tybee 500!

Everyone is forgetting one thing. Hoop is Rods manager. If you know Hoop he will find a way out of a protest.

Beside the usual videographers, Robert and Jeanine Feldman being on the beach, We could not help but notice two others that were right in there filming. I finally had a chance to ask and the answer was a great surprise.

C & H Productions of New Mexico were here filming the entire race for TV. It will be aired twice in June on the Outdoor Life Network, or OLN. By the way, this is a great network to tune into often. They have some really great programs.

The director offered to send some footage of the race to www.catsailor.com and we will post it as soon as we get it – should be in 4-6 weeks. The production is sponsored by Coca Cola and Powerade. So, now that we know who is trying to help out sailors, we now know which sodas and drinks to buy, don’t we?

The Tybee 500 was again a great race experience ,-it is great to see the interest and as always great coverage of the event here on CATSAILOR,-

The event will be on OLN T V in June ,-teams are to recieve a preview dvd. The very nice couple filming the event were great and there are numerous in depth interviews with all the teams . Robert and Jeanie will also provide their excellent film of the 05 TYBEE 500 as per each year , they have become good friends over the years ,it is always a pleasure to see them.

Thanks again to all ,-race organizers ,-all the teams for being there and being great folks to make it all worthwhile,-OLD FREINDS AND NEW , and the SAILMAX.biz sailors -Bonnie Jake , MIKE -David ,-Chris Dave and lead foot Tim ,
good racing this weekend in Columbus GA
http://www.sailmax.biz/

Highly recommend to any to become part of the event as team organizer -manager -gr crew -race event official -or racing sailor ,-It sounds like next years event will bring in numerous older and newer teams already beginning planning for it .

all the best -
Carl

What a week...that's all I can say. Thanks to all the competitors, ground crews, Chuck, Judy, Jeanie, Rick White, Robert, Neal & Co. and the race offials, the OLN TV crew and everyone else that made this a great race from beginning to end.

I especially want to thank Michael Ferrara for driving Windy Hill to our best finish in the Tybee and for coming in with little notice. He was a great skipper and teacher for me the entire week. Team Manager Daryl, you were our backbone and team leader all week. Thanks to coming along and I hope you'll be back with us in the future. To Matt, you came along way from the "Burgh" to help the team and I thank you for your constant help.

Congratulation to Tad and Trey on their great first time performance. You guys will be the leaders before you know it - I hope to see you on the water soon.

Congratulations to Kenny and JC, Rod and Robert and Carla - great job! You kept it going everyday without a hitch...

I hope to see more teams next year - so start planning now and be there next year -

See you in Hollywood next year.

I've finally got a moment to sit down and type up some thoughts regarding this great race.

When Trey and I originally decided to do this race, we knew that we would consider it a success if we finished. Personally, I wanted to finish, and make it respectable. I'm fairly confident that we accomplished both of those goals. The week started out pretty rough. We had a bad time trying to jib reach around Fowley Rocks, so we decided to head up a bit and pop the chute into the beach, running a bit deeper. Unfortunately the tack line on the spin broke free and pulled out, leaving us to do the last 6 or so miles on main and jib alone on a point of sail that would have favored our chute. Space coast blew by us on the way into the beach. The next day wasn't much better. We were sailing the hot angles instead of sticking the the beach on the way to Jupiter. We found out the hard way that it wasn't the way to do things on this race.

But from that point on, it seemed that we picked up bits and pieces of the copious amounts of advice that was oh-so-generously given by so many people.

I knew that if we were going to finish the race, we would need some guidance and assistance from our competitors. Not only was that help given, it was given with smiles and in excess. I am litterally in awe of the comraderie of the competitors of this race. You guys made the new guys on the block feel like we'd been old friends for years. Particularly Kirk and Key Sailing, Team Tybee and SailMax (I and II) who all lended us great amounts of rigging and tuning help... It was a fantastic feeling for me to be mingling amongst people that I had looked up to for years.

First and foremost on our "to-be-thanked publicly" list is Frank and Mike of Team Windy Hill. They litterally took us under their wings and made sure that once we hit the beach, we were well taken care of. I cannot think of better people to be "looking out for us" than Frank, Mike, Darryl and Matt. Those guys are simply awesome, and in my opinion, epitomize the spirit of this race. Second on the list, is the Team Velocity Ground crew who spent many an evening worried sick about their friends on the boat. Thanks to Derek for pushing us out through that water every morning, and thanks to James "That 70's Guy" for fixing whatever we had broken during the day, and providing much needed comic relief.

Finally, I'd like to thank Chuck and the Race Officials who waited for us on that beach with anxious eyes for our sail on the horizon. You guys did a great job, and just know that we'll be back next year to improve on our finish this year.

-Tad

Carl, Frank, all the Competitors and Teams, Organizers, and Reporters, Thanks for another great event!I find following this race tremendously exciting! Isn't it fantastic that we had two young teams in the race! My congrats to all! Especailly Jake, Tad, and Trey. And Bonnie you are something special! Your writing style, sense of humor, and understanding of the sport make for great reading! Last but not least, my thanks to Rick and Mary, this forum is like a second home for me, and your reports have become a staple in my life. I have become quite Catsailor dependent! Thanks again! Brian