How many strands of a shroud cable can be broken before you are uncomfortable using it? I just spotted 1 broken strand on one of my shroud cables and plan to go with it until the new cable arrives in the mail. Am I flirting with disaster or using good sailors common sense?

I would say that you are taking a great risk with your boat and possibly yourself.
There is a reason the strand has broken, and unless you know definately why that strand has broken (like that you snipped it with a pair of pliers), the whole shroud is very suspect.


Standing rigging like shrouds, forestay and bridles are things you should change on a regular basis anyway. Some say every year, I find that a bit to often but you will have to decide for yourself.

I am with Rolf. I think the answer is "zero".I dismasted lst year in the Steeplechase, there was no apparent issues with the shroud and yet it blowed up!

I think replacing standing rigging every three years is what most recommend on the standing rigging for a saltwater sailed boat.

Even on the schedule suggested by Jake, you should still take a good look every once in a while. I had the factory shroud on the 4.3 fail after only a year and a half. They were vinyl coated and the failure was down in the swage, so it wasn't somewhere I could easily see - I went up a size (diameter) when I replaced it and did new wires all the way around.

Bottom line - if you already see a broken strand, that whole wire is done. Don't just replace the one, replace them all. Nothing is more disappointing than travelling eight hours to a regatta, losing the rig before the first race, dealing with getting the mast back on the boat, pulling the main off and rolling it up, begging some fishermen for a tow, then sitting on the beach waiting for everyone to get back.

While we're on this subject, I would advise against using factory made wires for many boats. Some manufacturers have begun using cheap SS Wire Rope from less-than-ideal asian sources. Get them made locally using Mil/Aerospace spec wire made in the USA or EU, and genuine Mil/Aero spec thimbles, forks and etc. It won't cost any more than the factory supplied parts; mine actually cost a little less. And you can demand that the thimbles, ovals, forks and etc. are packed with Lifecaulk or 3M 5200 or similar before swaging so that water never intrudes into these anaerobic environments to eat away at the rigging; uninspected and uninspectable. This is the real reson why you change rigging so often.

As for the number of wire starnds you can do without..C'mon, you're kidding, right?

Jimbo

My boat lives on the beach on the ocean and I replace bridle, forstay and shrouds every other year. The forstay pigtail up top takes most of the load and wear so I replace that every year. I had a shroud break last year that was only a year and a half old but I believe it was made wrong. If you live on a lake in fresh water, you can probably double that. The salt water really does a number on the rigging.

Any strands broken indicate significant corrosion and should be replaced IMMEDIATELY.

Roger that. I hear your answers loud and clear! As you can tell, I am brand spankin' new to this and I'm trying to get this thing up and running without the benefit of a local experienced cat sailor to help me out. I bought the boat used, waited to get a new mast and tramp, and now I'm itching to go sailing. After waiting around for so long to get this project up and running, I certainly can and will wait just a few days longer!
Thanks again to all for the guidance.
TRowe

Go sailing - Demasting is always an adventure!

Craig,

Do you have any of that carbon fiber rigging left to send to this fellow?

The problem with the vectran rigging I used was that the material does not stretch but the weaving does...A LOT.

The lines need to be significantly shorter and have to be tensioned a ton then tension them more. I will never go back to that. Maybe another type of rope.

Are you saying that you have tried vectran rigging and will not go back to synthetic, but stay with wire?

If I could be so bold, would you mind saying some words about this? Diameters, brands, terminals, splices and wear ?
If the problem was stretch, and not creep, I assume that this was a problem every time you went out?

I do not have the specs of the Vectran we used but I can get them if you need. I would like to try different composite rigging but it needs to be in a linear fashion instead of a woven fashion. It also needs to have some sort of UV/chaffing cover to protect from harness lines and other lines from rubbing the composite material.

We put the Vectran forstay and shrouds on before Miami Key Largo last year and we did not have a chance to run them in and get out the initial Creep. The rig was so sloppy that the boat was really scarry to sail in the high winds that year. The entire rig would move around. We tightened up the rig before the Key Largo-Key West and it was still moving around ALOT. We kept tightening it up by removing harware to get more preload but no mater what we did the rig still moved around a bit.

This year we went back to stainless steel and I trust the rig a lot more. I was never afraid of the Vectran breaking (it had twice the breaking point of the stainless) but the vectran made the rig more unpredictable, especially when surfing waves and sailing downwind. That year both the MKL and Hogsbreath were both downwind.

So you would prefer a non-braided vectran line, with cover, if you were to try this again. Correct?

Most of the problems I have heard about (from larger boats), is the initial creep. They are continously tighting stays etc. the first times they go out with new rigging.

I dont know how you do this, be we always tighten our rigging before we go out. We do it by moving the main-traveller out to an end of the beam, and sheet in so the sidestay goes slack. It's easy to tighten the rig then.. (Takes two persons on the trapeze at the transom to release the rig again afterwards, if we forget and takes the main down).
Is this about the same tension you applied before you went out?

It would be handy to know what dimensions you used, as windage have to be balanced against weight.

Went out last weekend on a Prindle 18-2. Before we put the mast up I noticed the upper port shroud had 3 broken strands right at the nicopress fitting. Though I had a pit in my stomach, we went ahead with our day sail. Winds were in the 10-12 kts range, waves not too bad. After 2.5 hours, we returned safely to shore. After the de-rigging, the shroud had 5 or 6 strands gone. I think we were luckt that day.

Mike.

Hi Rolf,

I would indeed try a non braided vectran line with a cover. I am completely sure that the stretch comes from the weaving and not the material.

I sail a SC-20 which likes a really tight rig to begin with. I think partially because of the 12' wide beam. I would tighten the rig to the same specs as with normal stainless steel. I think if I tightened it any more it would cause undue stress to the rest of the boat. The bigger boats can continuously tighten their lines when on the water but beach cats are not set up that way.

I have the origional Vectran lines with the boat and I can get the dimensions for you next week. They are not that much more windage but the weight was close to yarn. I would have to add some nylon shroud protectors to protect daggerboard and harness line chaffing which would end up weighing more than the lines themselves and increase the diameter. It also made it more of a pain to work with.

Tornado,

Very lucky indeed. I think most of us have made decisions on the side of fun hoping we could squeak it out by not pushing the boat too much. Glad it worked out for you with no damage.

I would appreciate it if you could check the dimensions at your next opportunity.

If I go for vectran rigging, I would look at something like what Eric Precourt offers, so I could tighten the stays easily (perhaps even on water, if going to windward on a stable course)

Ref: http://www.precourt.ca/f_products.htm

Check this out:

http://www.briontoss.com/education/archive/miscfall01.htm

Seems all that nasty stretch comes from the braiding or even heavy twisting used on some types of lines. But these high modulus fibers do not like repeated bending, presumably even within their elastic potential. Thus braid or heavy twist is the only option for a beach cat that's going to be set up and taken down repeatedly. Otherwise the rope strength degrades.
I guess from an engineer's perspective, beach cats do not have any 'standing' rigging; it's ALL running.

Learn something new every day!

Jimbo

Jim, excellent article. Food for tought, but not enought to make me forget the idea.

His main concern was with cyclic loading and bending, which would be on the top part of the shrouds where they bend around the mast. Making the shrouds two part, with regular wire on top would be one solution.
Splices would be hard, but I like Eric Precourt's terminals. Or taking op the old tradition of 'bendling' to make eyes.

I know, it's so tempting! I have some 'super' halyard line with a parallel core and like 24 cord jacket (VERY fine tight braid) that looks like it might make good stays. I forget what the core is made of, Spectra, I think, ultra low stretch. In 1/4" it's about half again stronger than my 5/32" SS 1 X 19. Does Spectra have the same cyclic load/bending problem? I think if you go to plastic stays, you should go all the way from mast to chainplates!

Jimbo