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To all class promotors and internet handy members #54398
08/03/05 07:22 AM
08/03/05 07:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
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To all class promotors and internet handy members !

I need your help.

I've been asked to provide content for a full colour and glossy beach catamaran magazine. They were thinking about the september issue. I can do alot but this is maybe to much work for just me alone.

Also our website really need a make-over. Robi has already done some work but I truly need some hands in getting it just right and transfering the content. Maybe even make new content. I for one, simply do not have the time to do everything. Not with me doing several promotional activities and promotional races in the weekends.

Of course many hands make light work, so please can I see a show of (extra) hands to slam dunk this European opportunity to get the F16 class showing its stuff in full colour in this magazine and prepping the website to catch the interested parties when the look for more info about our class.

This is probably our European beakthrough, so now is the time to help us all out.

In addition to volunteers to do some work I'm looking for great pictures of F16 sailors and their boats. Permission to use these in the magazine. And possible some good content, stories or race results. I have gethered alot over time but I just want to make sure that I got everything.

And I'm really really really on my knees begging for a webmaster for our F16 website. I used to do that job but it is really to much in addition to my other duties. Robi has agree to do the technical stuff but I need somebody or multiple bodies to work on the content and the individual articles. Sort of like working as the journalists. If nobody volunteers for this job then it simple will not be done as I REALLY do not have any time for it.

Regards,

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Wouter] #54399
08/03/05 07:34 AM
08/03/05 07:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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I myself do not have much time either, but I already volunteered to do anything I can.

Wouter you mention photos, I assume you want photos from the EU guys only?

Passing all the content over shouldnt be hard, its just a matter of cut and paste. I can work that out in the next couple of days.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy members [Re: Wouter] #54400
08/03/05 07:41 AM
08/03/05 07:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Wouter, is this a new magazine, or are you talking about Multicoques?

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy members [Re: Mary] #54401
08/03/05 09:42 AM
08/03/05 09:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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No it is not Multicogues, if only .... !, it is a Dutch catamaran magazine but still a pretty significant publication.

http://www.catmagazine.nl/overCM.php

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Robi] #54402
08/03/05 09:49 AM
08/03/05 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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Robi,

I've got a few remarks on the make-up of the new webpage. We should cover that first before transferring any content. If we have the website up and running before the issue is released in September than we'll be fine.

I want to give you a call about the layout somewhere in the next couple of days, is that alright ? Once we have the framework as we want it than we can entlist a view persons to work on the content and updating the existing pages. That is the reason why we have the new framework right ?

Quote

Wouter you mention photos, I assume you want photos from the EU guys only?


Certainly not. We are an international class and therefor all pics from any nation are welcome. We'll just pick the best ones. Or let them pick the best ones. We may have to create a photo gallery for them to browse through though. Maybe you can work on that first over the next couple of days ? I can than later fill that up as I got a significant database of F16 pics.

But still looking for extra hands everybody. Don't let Robi and myself pull the car all by ourself again.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Wouter] #54403
08/03/05 10:26 AM
08/03/05 10:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Wouter,
Be careful when you say, "we are an international class." ISAF does not allow you to use the word "international" in any context concerning sailing unless your class is officially an ISAF international or recognized class.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Mary] #54404
08/03/05 10:42 AM
08/03/05 10:42 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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We are a class; we are international; we are an international class. Does the ISAF control how we are allowed to put words together?? Heck, lots of other language to describe the class could be used anyway:

global
multinational
intercontinental
worldwide
transworld
all-earth
universal
[etc]


A couple suggestions for the website:

I would love to see a world map on the new web site with all the f16 sailors and constructors indicated and "clickable."

The website should also offer free advertising to the Catsailor site and their marine store for their service in hosting the forum.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: ejpoulsen] #54405
08/03/05 10:53 AM
08/03/05 10:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Quote
We are a class; we are international; we are an international class. Does the ISAF control how we are allowed to put words together??


Yes, they claim so. And don't even think about using the word "world" or anything that even implies international or world or continental or multi-continental.

"Intergalactic" has been approved.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Mary] #54406
08/03/05 11:21 AM
08/03/05 11:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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I agree... ISAF claim to represent all "International" "Olympic" and "recognised" classes..
Any referance to F16 being an "international class" according to ISAF would deem the sailors in breach of ISAF rules.. Means ISAF membership could be stripped from the individual sailors.. Likewise "national" classes are deemed by the bean counters to be restricted to classes that are officially recognised as such but the ISAF regulated national sailing body..

Im no sure how close the F16 as a class is to official "international" classification but we arent far off.. (the lack of official class status in the national sailing bodies would be a problem for ISAF though)

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Stewart] #54407
08/03/05 12:36 PM
08/03/05 12:36 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



The way I understand the rules, an individual sailor can lose eligibility to race in ISAF-sactioned events (i.e. everything) for knowingly sailing in a prohibited event (Regulation 19.4). Prohibited events include those that use the term "world" in their name without being approved to do so by the ISAF (19.4.1(c)) and events that are not organized by the ISAF or one of their minions (national authorities, affiliated clubs etc) (19.4.1.(d) and RRS 88.1).

So, as far as I can see, calling the F16 class an international class is not by itself a problem. A problem does arise, however, for individual sailors, if they sail in any event that is organized by a body unaffiliated with the ISAF, such as the F16 Class Authority (regardless of whether they call themselves "international" or not) or any similar national or local group.

This may well also be an issue for the proposed Australian nationals being planned for the coming season, unless it is organized under the auspices of some body affiliated with Yachting Australia.

Mark.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: ] #54408
08/03/05 01:10 PM
08/03/05 01:10 PM
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scooby_simon Offline
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I think it was the Cherubs rana little foul of this in the UK, ended up calling their worlds the "intergalatic's" to get around it.



F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: ] #54409
08/03/05 03:06 PM
08/03/05 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Mark, I'm just telling you what I was told, in no uncertain terms, by ISAF Past President Paul Henderson while he was still president.

Don't even get me started on this, because it makes me out-of-control angry.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Mary] #54410
08/03/05 04:56 PM
08/03/05 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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Mary, I'm not trying to "shoot the messenger" here, but please tell me you agree that this is an insane and probably illegal position for the ISAF.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: ejpoulsen] #54411
08/03/05 05:29 PM
08/03/05 05:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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You tell ISAF that.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: ejpoulsen] #54412
08/03/05 05:57 PM
08/03/05 05:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Quote

The website should also offer free advertising to the Catsailor site and their marine store for their service in hosting the forum.



Good point ! We'll do that.


Quote

I would love to see a world map on the new web site with all the f16 sailors and constructors indicated and "clickable."



I would love to do that but first I'll have to find somebody who would like to create such a thing using scripting and such. I can't and don't have the time to learn scripting. Any takers ? Would be a really nice feature. Especially with the homebuilders in our class.


Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Stewart] #54413
08/03/05 06:04 PM
08/03/05 06:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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We can not promote ourselfs as an "international class" (or whatever) but we can use the word "international" as a clearification to the spread of our "class" over the nations of the world in normal communication.

There is a difference between the name/identifier "international class" and the grouping of words "international class". The last only says that the class encloses group in several different nations.

Wouter





Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Wouter] #54414
08/03/05 08:54 PM
08/03/05 08:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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Western Australia
"F16 cat fleets are found internationally across Europe, Africa, Asia, North America and Australia"
So while we arent an international class we can say we have an international spread.. Just dont put international and class beside each other .. Wording is important

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Wouter] #54415
08/03/05 09:12 PM
08/03/05 09:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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It would depend entirely in what context the term "International" or "worlds" etc, were used!
No one can "patent" any reference to a terminology that is a legitimate descriptive noun i.e. "the F16 formula catamarans are sailed in many countries around the world and as such the class is sailed internationally ergo if they all come together for a series of races they are sailing an international event, or by another descriptive noun “World title races”. But as I see the argument from the ISAF you can't call any race championships sailed by a class that isn’t fully affiliated with them "world titles" as they have taken unto themselves "ownership" of that type of event naming, What did they do – Patent a word? Are at least copyright it? Sounds a little suspect at the least. But they seem to be claiming more authority for themselves than they could defend in any court of law. If they "threaten" any one for calling any class that is undeniably "International" and that class has been accepted as that (international) well before the very existence of the ISAF, they may even be opening themselves up to having to seek “approval” from that preceding “international class to even use the term “world titles”? What happens when a class that has been affiliated with the ISAF and conducted their “worlds” with the approval of the ISAF and then relinquish their affiliation? Does that class suddenly become non-international? There is such a thing as "precedent" that even the ISAF cannot circumvent. Besides, the ISAF (or anyone else for that matter) can say anything that they like BUT until it has been challenge in a court of law and received validation by a decision given in their favour, then they are just hollow threats
(I think that I would like to “patent” and “copyright” the word “the”, then every time it is ever used I will receive a royalty for it’s use!!! What an easy way of getting rich quick, - so remember now everyone who uses my word “the” has to send me 2 cents every time they use it, thank you –and watch out for my lawyers)

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #54416
08/03/05 09:45 PM
08/03/05 09:45 PM
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Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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It could make a mokery of the ISAF Mary, with the Formula 14 catamarn association here in Australia which is fully incorporated under the law and now fully affiliated with "Yachting South Australia", and "Yachting Australia" and we are at this time also setting up a web site hosted by "Yachting Australia" and the full official name of the F14 association is "The International Formula 14 Catamaran Association (IFCA for short)

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #54417
08/04/05 01:52 AM
08/04/05 01:52 AM
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I think (and it is think) the issue is that the ISAF have installed themselves as the managing authority of "World Championships" and they then hold have some hold on the usage of the terms world championship when associated with sailing. I don't know exactly what the angle is, I just know that classes have got into trouble by organising "un-official" world champs.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
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