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Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Mark Schneider] #54438
08/05/05 10:04 PM
08/05/05 10:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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Darryl_Barrett  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
My main point is that the ISAF should look after only what they are entitled to.
Sure they can "quoin" the term of "world's", when and as it is pertinent to themselves, BUT only as far as it is applicable to events that they control/administer/organise etc, NOT turn around and say that no other person/class/club/body can organise a sailing event of full international participation and call it "worlds" (or words to that effect) and have sailors who compete in those "worlds" ineligible to ever compete in an ISAF sanctioned event. To me their attitude should be that their (ISAF) "worlds" are an officially sanctioned sailing "worlds" by the ISAF rules regulations etc, and any others are simply non sanctioned by them (ISAF). It’s this punitive punishment that the ISAF threaten to administer on sailors who participate in any "non sanctioned" by the ISAF event that sticks in my throat. To me it has nothing to do with quality of sailing or the better and more efficient administration of sailing, to me it appears as a pure "money grab" by the ISAF for their own benefit without any of that benefit ever filtering back to the actual sailors. When you read the constitution of the ISAF it is rather frightening, they want, no, they DEMAND, everything and they want the sailor to pay through the nose for it. Any class conducting an event "sanctioned by the ISAF" has to (among other things) even pass up their control of the financial rights of any filming, video or TV contracts of THEIR event to the ISAF. Sounds to me like the only real principal here is “who holds the purse”
If you don’t play football by my rules (those being I always win) then I will take MY ball and MY goal posts home and no one plays.

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Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #54439
08/06/05 03:36 AM
08/06/05 03:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I'd actually suggest that instead of getting too het up about the ISAF flexing their control, just call the class the F16 class and don;t worry about the international bit; IMO the class will sell it's self (although not to me) and so the "International" bit is of no real value. When it comes time to organise the first "worlds", just call them the the Internationals or intergalactic's.

The Albacore class is organising an "internationals" in Lyme Regis; comments from the Y+Y article here :

now this sounds like a world champs to me....

Quote
Sailors from across the world will be gathering in Lyme Regis next month to take part in the Kangaroo Poo sponsored Albacore International Sailing Regatta.

Entries for the Kangaroo Poo Albacore Internationals have reached 65 with six weeks to go before the first race. The championship which incorporates the UK National Championships is being hosted by Lyme Regis Sailing Club. Competitors from five countries will race a nine race series to decide the International Championship.


Or maybe that cannot call it a worlds becasue they have entries from 5 countries ???? IIRC the ISAF also say you need 6 competing countries for a worlds....


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: scooby_simon] #54440
08/06/05 04:57 AM
08/06/05 04:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Simon,
You are not allowed to call your event "International," either, unless you are an ISAF Class.

You also are not allowed to hold a regional event, like a North Americans unless you are an ISAF Class, AND unless the "Region" is officially recognized as such by ISAF. In the case of North America, we would have to form a North American Sailing Association and get it approved by ISAF in order to "legally" hold North American Championships even for ISAF Classes.

Another example is that there was recently a Caribbean Championship, but that was not ISAF-legal. Supposedly, the Caribbean nations are trying to organize and get ISAF approval as a region, so they can legally hold Caribbean Championships.

All of the above is based upon what I was told by Paul Henderson when he was ISAF President. I suppose this does not necessarily mean that all other ISAF officials interpret the regulations the same way.

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Mary] #54441
08/07/05 10:30 PM
08/07/05 10:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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Darryl_Barrett  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Just curious if anyone could give an opinion as to how these “rules” by the ISAF would affect a sailor who crewed on a boat that was involved in an elimination series of "match races" between two boats that eliminated the loser of each "match", with the full “series” being raced between a number of boats of twenty or thirty or so from different countries competing, to finally end up with two boats sailing off to determine the eventual winner of the series. Even if it wasn't called "worlds" or any similar type of name, BUT there was prize money at the end of the series (and full sponsorship money) of an amount that way passed the maximum amount that the ISAF approved of. Would that relevant "crew" be "banned" from competing in any future ISAF event (or any sailing event at all -19.1 A competitor whose ISAF eligibility has been suspended or revoked shall not engage in ANY competition in the sport of sailing)??
How would the ISAF rules apply to "professionally" retained sailors?? And on another line. What would happen to a sailor who sailed a class of cat that wasn’t affiliated with ANY club, state or national sailing authority, or the ISAF, and that class of cat organised their own worlds at which that sailor competed at, then after the event that sailor then registered/joined with a club and through that clubs affiliation with it’s local sailing authority etc up to recognition by the ISAF, and he sailed a Tornado (for example), would he be eligible to compete. Bearing in mind that previously he was literally “off the map” (as was the class that he sailed with) as far as the ISAF was concerned?

Re: To all class promotors and internet handy memb [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #54442
08/09/05 10:03 AM
08/09/05 10:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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Stewart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Darryl,
I may be completely wrong.. So grain of salt time..
But as I read the rules.. If some one sails in an event that is of international in scope and is outside the ISAF then all sailors (skipper and crews) will lose their ISAF membership and thus could be protested from any sanctioned International event.. (NOTE protested by either a competitor or the organising committee)..

Losing ones ISAF membership doesnt automatically lose ones national sailing membership.. However losing ones national membership automatically cancels ones ISAF membership..

Losing ones National membership doesnt lose ones state membership.. One may lose their state membership and still sail with their club..

Membership starts at club level.. Part of the fees include monies for all membership levels.. So joining an affiliated club after an event grants membership to all levels of sailing..

The only way I know of where a sailor can be banned for a period from all sailing events is by becoming a person of ill repute.. Have only heard of one such event and Im not sure of the charges or length of banning..

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