I have a set of plans for the Taipan 4.9. As the cold season is creeping ever closer I am giving some consideration to building this sucker this winter.

I am curious how much it is likely to cost, how long it is likely to take, and if there are others who have built their own out there, that might share insights with me.

Hope to hear from you all.

Thanks -

kb

Here's a wild, uneducated guess:

A bunch of plywood $1500

A bunch of resin/cloth $300

A bunch of hardware $1000

Mast, sails, rudders, etc $3500

Countless hours toiling in a damp, cold garage or basement $????

Sailing the 4.9...Priceless

If you should choose the build the Taipan from the plans, then contact us (other homebuilders) first.

We can really help you out in several aspects. There are some simplifications and improvements that will make the boat better still.

Example : raising the mainbeam (really the best mod you can make). Rounding off the gunwhales (your bottom and feet will appreciate this). Using tubes to lead the trampeze bungee cords through the hulls. Etc etc.

Also making the mainbeam of an broken F18 mast is a really good modification that will help make the boat stiffer.

These are all simple mods if you are building up the boat from scratch but really make a difference when all is added up.

And ohh, get a modern rig for you modified Taipan as well. Selftacking jib, large squaretop etc. Exactly same cost, but again you will appreciate these mods.

My own boat, (home-build timber epoxy Taipan with alot of mods), took 3 years to complete. Meaning from the get go to having is sail as intended with the controls in the right place and ready to race. Some things you just can't rush. Also fitting out the boat (lines, cleats, blocks) will take about a whole season to get it right. Unless you copy the system of other homebuilds that have preformed this trial and error fitting-out proces already.

I think I payed about 12.000 Euro's in total compared to about 15.500 euro's for a commercially build Taipan. (remember these are European prices as we have high taxation so could well be less for US builders). Point being you will not say too much in relation to buying a commercially available boat.

You must do it for the fun of building such a boat and because you can make/have everything just the way you want it. But it is definately a long haul. And you will encounter a time when you are fed up with it and just want to have it sailing. Once it does however the rewards are there as well. Like I said earlier, you will have everything just as you want it.

For more info : contact phill brander.

Last tip : consider homebuilding the Blade F16 as well. slightly more difficult I'm told but well worth the extra effort once it is finished and sailing. I hear nothing but good comments about that design. Seems like Phill got that design right.

One option you should also consider is buying two hulls and then finishing the boat yourself from then on ward. This is still great fun and you'll still need about a year or one and halve to get the boat running, but avoid the really big job stuff.

Wouter

If your in the U.S. Aircraft Spruce is a good source of aircraft and marine plywood, alu tubing, epoxies, carbon, etc.
You should get a rough idea of what the basis structure will cost.

Web site is http://www.aircraftspruce.com/

Hulls are not the expensive part of a homebuildt boat. All those small items, like blocks, tracks, ratchets, cleats really add up when you are fitting out your platform. The rig also costs the standard pound of meat and blod if your goal is a cheap boat (dont think we should convert that phrase to "SI" metric, Wouter ). The more you can build yourself, the more money you can save, but then "time == money" and you want to get sailing as well..

If you have the time and inclination, you can build everything (except for running rigging) yourself. Foils, ruddersystem, mast, crossbeams etc. But be prepared to spend quite some time in the building shed.

If you are serious about a boatbuilding project. I suggest you start with finding or sourcing the rig/mast. That's usually the most expensive part, and the one you have most trouble shipping. It might also be smart to calculate how much you will spend on fitting your boat out, to se if you can afford it.
Looking around in papers, E-bay, Catsailor-magazine etc. for badly damaged boats you can buy cheap and use as donor boats might also save you quite a bit of money. Even if the hulls are shot, you can still use all the gear+mast and perhaps ruddersystem, foils etc.

If you start building, dont put a value on your own time. You will soon realize that by working a second job instead of boatbuilding you could have bought a new boat in a shorter time.
In sum, build the boat becouse you want to build it, not to save huge sums of money.

kb,
As Wouter has inferred it is all about the journey.
You have to want to sail your own creation.
I can asure you that if you build this boat because you want to build your own boat you will get a surge of satisfaction and pride every time you put the boat in the water.

I have built a numbe r of Taipans in addition to my own. Mostly just helping mates out and I just happen to enjoy building and have the facilities. So if there is anything I can do to help out just email me and I will be glad to do what I can.

I think I still have around 13 files of text and a heap of photos describing the project if it is of any help.

Just to quantify some of the dollars:-
I pay $59 per sheet of Okume ply to BS1088 standard.
Don't be tempted to use anything else or you won't get the weight. If you already have the plans you will know how many sheets you will need.
In theory you can get away with 4.8letres of resin but I have never managed this. I end up using around twice that and much of it ends up as waste. I always divide the job up into small tasks and this approach can waste the resin a little. So I always budget on 10 litres.
You can make your own boards but I wouldn't. It is unlikely you will be able to do as good as a pro and these boats rely very heavily on a low drag lift ratio. There is no real difference in the hull ply or glass but I would suggest you consider your boards differently.

Apart from that, the cost will depend a little on if you are trying to build a class leagal Taipan specs. The mods Wouter suggested would not be permitted for a class leagal T4.9.You should be aware of this. Now if you want a class leagal F16 this opens up some options that will most likely prove to be less expensive and more along the lines of what Wouter has suggested.
I sailed Wouter's boat when I was in the Netherlands last year and it is my opinion that they have taken the T4.9 a step forward.

Good luck.
Enjoy the journey.

Regards,
Phill

if you are more interested in building something fitting into the F16 instead of focusing on the one design 4.9,
you can also look for other boats which might offer you a good base to remodel them to F16 spec.

If you want to sail alone, the A-class might offer some good older platforms you can quite easily remodel to 4.9 m by cutting front and rear and which you can strengthen by using the weight reserve coming with it.

a A-cat hull weights nowadays around 13-17 kg, the taipan 4.9 hulls around 22 kg... so you might can even look for heavier hulls and reduce weight in the beams and equipment...

but building complete new hulls is mostly a time eating process like wouter pointed out...

the real costs are surely in the equipment if you can't profit from 2nd hand stuff...

hope this helps and good luck!

hello,
I am a carpenter, in France, beside saint malo
I am very interested by the possibility
to manufacture me a taipan 4.9.
how then I to get the plans and the method of fabriquation? thank you
Jean-michel

You have two options :

You can homebuild the taipan 4.9 (or homebuild the Taipan F16 as most of use have done recently); Contact Greg Goodall at www.ahcp.com.au

You can homebuild the Blade F16 design : contact Phill Brander at phillbrander(at)bigpond.com (replace the (at) by the @ sign)

Both building plans cost 250 Australian dollars = about 150 Euro's

The Blade is the better and more modern design of the two. Both both share the same superwing rig (mast, sails and measurements)

If you have more questions then e-mail me at Formula16class(at)hotmail.com . I'm in a group that homebuilded two Taipan F16's from marine ply and epoxy.


Wouter

Looking to another boring winter in Kansas...unless we build some hulls.

In conversation with Phill already, more costs input desired before we "pull the trigger".

Help is needed refining Erics' uneducated guess (other than the hulls).

Boards, rudders & steering system $1,700
Main $1,400
Jib $ 600
Gennaker complete $1,600
tramp, rigging, blocks, all else $1,000

Am I high, low or close?

And the blank I can't fill in,

Superwing mast $ ?

Is there an option to the superwing?

Another question is using recycled mast extrusions for the cross beams. I know Phill has stated your off-the-shelf 6061-T6 AL tubing is most cost effective. I can see potential of a cleaner look with the extrusion. Is there a substantiated structural advantage?

You could contact John P at Stealth about the tapered carbon fiber mast they put on their F16s.

A good rule of thumb is that you will not save much money on a homebuild boat. You will save some, but not more than 20 %, probably only 10 to 15 %. Note that for these savings you'll have your boat 2 years later than just buying one, because .. you have to build it yourself !

The choice for homebuilding should be made on the following considerations.

-1- The thrill of sailing a product you have build yourself. Especially if it only weights 110 kg, makes a long nose to the big builders.
-2- The superior characteristics of ply-epoxy hull construction. Dents are a thing of the past and when done right the hulls are stiffer than glass/foam.
-3- The ability to fully adjust the layout and design to your personal preference.
-4- The ability to choose yourself which parts are used. I found that parts of different brands are good at specific usages. A builder will normally order all from few sources. As a homebuilder you can pick the best from a wide range of supplier.

A good rule of thumb would take a new price and deduct 15%-20% and then you have a good minimum investment estimate.

Blade F16 => 11.800 * 0.85 = 10.000 USD spend before the boat is fully build up as a doublehander F16



Talk to Vectorworks Marine, they have a big batch of masts. I payed 800 Euro's for a superwing mast including European taxes (about 22 %) and shipping it over from Australia.



Absolutely but don't expect to save much money if anything at all. The Superwing is very inexpensively priced. Options are Stealth Marine carbon mast or one made by Saarberg. The last is working on a doublehander carbon mast for the Blade F16. Of course you can also order a customized singlehander carbon mast.

If really pressed you could also consider a cut down Nacra F18 mast. These are the most flexible in the F18 class next to the Capricorn F18 and thus you won't end up with a telegraph pole when you shorten it. Still I woulnd place these options at the bottom of the list. The superwing masts and the custom F16 carbon masts will complete your F16 much much better. Halve of the excellent behaviour of the F16's comes from the well designed rigs.



When faced with such an option I would take it. We have a Homebuild Taipan F16 in NL now that sails with a mainbeam made of a broken Nacra F18 mast. This appears to be a good modification. The boat is stiffer than my Taipan F16 which uses the superwing section as the mainbeam and it is also more streamlined than a round section. The last is good when crashing through a wave. Having said this, a round section can be set into the hull and faired properly as well thus resulting in good "wave-crashing" behaviour.

As long as you are using a dolphin striker setup, these beams will be strong enough by far. Only design criterium left is the stiffness of the mainbeam setup. If you can get a Tiger mast then you will have one of the best mainbeam setups. Ohh, before I forget Vectorworks has a good mastsection for the mainbeam as well. It is more rounded, it comes of a monohull design. This extrusion is also variable in the wallthickness. It is thicker in its wall on the sides of teh section (top and bottom of the beam) and thinner everywhere else. This is exactly what you want in a beam. Thin sides and thicker top and bottom.



From a weight to stiffness it is. However its advantage over other profiles is not to large anyway. Most beams will be 3 to 4 kg per beam. Differences between different beams profiles is often only 0.5 to 1 kg = at max 1 to 2 kg overall. But making all Blades the same will enhance the attractiveness of the Blade design.

I assume you are considering the Blade design ? Correct.



Not really.

Wouter

Hi John,



If you are thinking about sailing one up, a second hand A class Carbon wing is an option from my experience. Just cut .5m off the top and put cedar cross ways up the inside it appears to be unbreakable? No experience two up yet, but it is realy tuff.

A classes in OZ all want to use Fibrefoam mast, so some are selling old masts, this may be the case in USA.

Regards Gary.

The stealth carbon mast profile is no where near as "lift powerful" (its more of the older "pear" shape) as the super wing or, better still, the profile combined with the low weight of an A class carbon mast, makes it very difficult to go past, it generates a hell of a lot more lift over the main than most anything else available, and is worth every penny of the extra cost.

Thank you to all,


That's affirmative.



It's the only thing that bothers me, the front beam seems so Nacra-esque. That's from leading a "cat-sheltered" life in our area (there's Hobies and Nacras, period), nothing personal Phill. I will check out the "more rounded" beam available from Vectorworks.

Sounds as though the carbon mast option may be marginal for double-handed sailing and we want that option.

Again, thanks for all comments and opinions.

Where'd you get that one from flatlander?

EVERY Stealth has a carbon mast and it's VERY FAR from 'marginal' two-up. My carbon mast demonstrates much less bend than I've seen on our local Spitfires, Nacra F18s and Hurricanes (all with ali masts).

Also, although it's considered to be the 'older' pear shape it does make the mast more forgiving in a blow when flying the kite - it's not quite so critical to rotate the mast to 90 degrees downwind.

I wouldn't say that.

You have to appreciate the fact that both alu and carbon masts have their own strong points ... and weak points. It all dependents on the way you are going to use the boat. At this time I wouldn't call either superior overall over the other.

I feel that the alu superwing mast is better when switching between doublehanding and singlehanding alot. Carbon on the other hand is easier to right and can be designed to be better for only doublehanding or only singlehanding but not both. Of course when doublehanding alot then the easy of righting of the carbon mast is indeed marginal as the alu mast is very easy to right with 2 people as well.

At this time the alu superwing and the mainsail designed and build for it have 15 years of development under their belts. This alone will make the alu superwing rig a very attractive option especially since it is so inexpensive. But carbon masts hold lots of promise.

So what do you do ? Specify your wish list first and then make a budget and then decide.

Wouter

Beats me? Let me explain. I have decided to source all large, but shipable, pieces from the mainland US (and of course you don't read minds). My only "local" option for a carbon mast would be a cut, A class, considering the chances of sourcing a "local/used" Stealth F16 mast would be slim to none.

The modified A class mast is what I was deeming marginal, no offense intended...hope this filled in the blanks.

Aaaah.....