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Re: Rules question [Re: Jamie Diamond] #56927
09/12/05 12:01 PM
09/12/05 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Jamie -

I realize the situation may have looked like that from the cheap seats (seats up front where you have to crane your neck uncomfortably), but regardless, there was some sweet tetrahedron lovemaking going on that day...


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
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Re: Rules question [Re: John Williams] #56928
09/12/05 03:10 PM
09/12/05 03:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
my understanding is, that if the boat hails for room at a mark or obstruction, regardless of entitlement you must give it to them, you can not push them the wrong side of the mark, even if it doesn't cause a collision.


Yes it is; however I would be trying much harder if damage might result. You would have a stronger case for proving the barging if you can say "he came in so late I could not give him room fast enough, this is the only reason (s)he hit the (nice soft inflatable) mark...."


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: Rules question [Re: SBeach] #56929
09/12/05 04:29 PM
09/12/05 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29
malgray Offline
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malgray  Offline
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Scott, At a downwind finish, when two boats on opposite gybes are shooting for the pin end of the line, the stb gybe gybe boat must give roonm for the port boat to gybe and round the mark.
(Tactical manoeuver used when the pin end is known to be favoured)

Re: Rules question [Re: malgray] #56930
09/12/05 09:16 PM
09/12/05 09:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 17
Panama City, FL
SBeach Offline
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Panama City, FL
Good thread, thanks for the education.

Re: Rules question [Re: malgray] #56931
09/13/05 02:20 PM
09/13/05 02:20 PM
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Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Scott, At a downwind finish, when two boats on opposite gybes are shooting for the pin end of the line, the stb gybe gybe boat must give roonm for the port boat to gybe and round the mark.
(Tactical manoeuver used when the pin end is known to be favoured)


Assuming the STBD boat is on the rhumb line. Surely at the time it looks like this might be a close one the STB boat heats up a little and then puts the Port boat about. Could be an interesting one if the Post boat manages to get above the stbd and then the stbd then drops down deep again.....

Risky stuff but might be important on a close series....


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: Rules question [Re: scooby_simon] #56932
09/13/05 04:10 PM
09/13/05 04:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29
malgray Offline
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I was referring to when both boats are laying the favoured pin end of the line. If I was the port guy and the STB guy heated up, I would ask him to hold his course, while I cross behind him and blast through the finish line.
In reality, the STB guy has no better option than to shoot low under the gybing port boat and hope for the best

Re: Rules question [Re: malgray] #56933
09/13/05 05:11 PM
09/13/05 05:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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In reality, the STB guy has no better option than to shoot low under the gybing port boat and hope for the best


Agreed. That is what I would do.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Rules question [Re: malgray] #56934
09/13/05 07:10 PM
09/13/05 07:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
Quote
Scott, At a downwind finish, when two boats on opposite gybes are shooting for the pin end of the line, the stb gybe gybe boat must give roonm for the port boat to gybe and round the mark.
(Tactical manoeuver used when the pin end is known to be favoured)


Somebody clarify this for me...I didn't think a finish line pin was treated like a mark on the course or an obstruction.

Quote
18 ROUNDING AND PASSING MARKS AND OBSTRUCTIONS
In rule 18, room is room for an inside boat to round or pass between an outside boat and a mark or obstruction, including room to tack or gybe when either is a normal part of the manoeuvre.

18.1 When This Rule Applies:
Rule 18 applies when boats are about to round or pass a mark they are required to leave on the same side, or an obstruction on the same side, until they have passed it. However, it does not apply

(a) at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water or at its anchor line from the time the boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them, or

(b) while the boats are on opposite tacks, either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one of them, but not both, to round or pass the mark or obstruction is to tack.


Jake Kohl
Re: Rules question [Re: Jake] #56935
09/13/05 08:22 PM
09/13/05 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Tim_Mozzie Offline OP
old hand
Tim_Mozzie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Any object required to be left on a specified side is a mark (definition of a mark). So the finish line pin is definitely a mark. Rule 18 applies.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Rules question [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #56936
09/16/05 09:09 PM
09/16/05 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
A
allwet Offline
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allwet  Offline
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A

Joined: Sep 2002
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m

Re: Rules question [Re: allwet] #56937
09/17/05 02:48 AM
09/17/05 02:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
m


??????????????????


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Rules question [Re: allwet] #56938
09/24/05 10:43 AM
09/24/05 10:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
A
allwet Offline
stranger
allwet  Offline
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A

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
n

Re: Rules question [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #56939
09/28/05 11:14 PM
09/28/05 11:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
A
allwet Offline
stranger
allwet  Offline
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A

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
o

Re: Rules question [Re: allwet] #56940
09/29/05 07:49 AM
09/29/05 07:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
p


Jake Kohl
Re: Rules question [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #56941
10/01/05 07:20 PM
10/01/05 07:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline
addict
Mike Fahle  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
This situation (downwind finish)is covered in the latest Sailing World magazine (October) edition in the "Rules" column written each month by rules expert Dick Rose. See page 70.

Re: Rules question [Re: Mike Fahle] #56942
10/05/05 07:20 AM
10/05/05 07:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
The definition of "Finish" helps me understand it is a mark also. Specifically, ". . . crosses the finishing line in the direction of the course from the last mark,..." Combine that with rule 28, the string rule.

Section C takes precedence when conflicting with Section A or B. Therefore its not about port or starboard, it about overlap and inside.

Hope Mr. Rose agrees with me.


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Rules question [Re: Chris9] #56943
10/05/05 08:56 AM
10/05/05 08:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
He does.


Jake Kohl
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