I heard this joke a little while ago and I'm not sure I've got it right, but I'll pass it on. You may have heard this before.

Definition of heaven: British police, German cars, French food.

Definition of hell: British food, German police, French cars.

Have you Euro guys heard this?

Have a great sailing weekend!

David
H20

Hmm, I think it should read:
Definition of hell: British cars, German food, French police. ;-)

Since, unfortunately, I have never been to Europe, it is hard for me to appreciate your "joke." But I think my definition of heaven would probably include French multihulls.

Heaven :

A place where the cooks are French
The police are British
The mechanics are German
The lovers are Italian
And the whole place is run by the Swiss


Hell :

A place where the cooks are British
The police are German
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
And the whole place is run by the Italians

Somehow, I dont think this poor guy would agree...

You need to be real carefull with things like that.

Find me a police force that has not shot an innocent man.

An innocent man who should not have been in the UK as it happens, his visa had expired some time ago.

Totally disagree:

There is no excuse EVER for police to kill innocent people, considering police is supposed to protect people. not to threaten them (the now famous shoot-to-kill policy).

2. The guy was legal in the country

3. he was NOT running

4. he did not wear a big jacket

5 he was killed by SEVEN bullets while he was lying on the floor and already in control/

and so on and so on.

I really dislike this subservience to the authority even when they are TOTALLY wrong.

By the way, French cars: Renault just got formula one champion.

How it goes?
Show me a police force than never killed an innocent man and I'll show you a police force that never did anything....
What if the guy had blown them all to hell when they had him in a pile, would they be heroes or would we still say, "all those cops around and the guy still blew up all these poor innocent civilians..."
That is the full version of the joke.

what if, what if...

you sound so scared.

What are you ready to accept in the name of "safety" or an illusion of safety?

I'm ready to accept that present Government can't do much effective good at all.
I'm ready to accept that Democracy is the right system of government, and that it doesn't work for long, because humans have short memories when life is easy.
I'm scared of big government and the ability of financial/political power to fashion law.
I accept PHRF as a way to all get on the water and have fun.

One thing I should add is that having re-read my post above I should have said "....an innocent man after investigation."

Mistakes will ALWAYS be made. We are humans after all. Even the police are human, Tiger. I know they drill the police here on good guy/ bad guy targets and I assume they do in London as well. Personally, I'm not going to condemn a man (who goes through training and is committed to public safety AND has been putting his life on the line daily) for doing what he thought was right. I suspect I'm not alone.

And not that it matters to you , but was the guy there without a visa (and therefore illegally) or not? I haven't seen a definative word on that. Why? I have less sympathy for those committing illegal acts is all.

Finally, what makes me ill is those that NEVER have respect for the authority regardless of what they do.

Greg

Here is a novel idea.




Hey lets just shoot everybody who looks suspicious in the London subway, we're bound to get lucky some time. And afterall everybody was warned not to act suspiciously well in advance and even in non mistakable terms. So everybody who did act suspiciously and is killed can only blame himself for acting suspiciously !

Prefect reasoning I would say, no mistakes possible !

If only the REAL TERRORISTS would comply to the set out rules and act suspiciously. You know like, not shave themselfs for a few days and wear red bandana's with jihadi texts. But of course these evil f#ckers, deviant as they are, will now try their utmost to appear like normal business men. Just like our man, Scooby here.

Darn, what now. humm, lets see.

Hey, lets just warn everybody not to act like business men and just shoot all the suits on sight. At least they can't say that they weren't warned, right ? And were bound to get lucky sooner or later. And we are seen to at least be doing something. Right ?

... Right ? ...

What ? no cheers from the white shirt and tie crowd this time ?




All this white (business class) trash should remember one important thing, as written down by the German anti-Nazi activist, Pastor Martin Niemöller



First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Catholic

Then when they came for me and other protestants
nobody protested or came to my defense
None were left that could.

I've seen a version of the original joke with even more nationalities involved than Wouter' version, but can't quite remember the text - sorry. Still, I am tempted to update it, so that Brazilians would be wining Laser regattas in heaven - 8th Worlds title for Robert Scheit last week - and running (in) the London tube in hell...

Some loose comments that will certainly NOT put an end to the current discussion, but may interest you:

-The major and more serious weekly Brazilian magazine "Veja" dedicated more space to comment negatively on the many organizations and people who tried to use the accident for their own political objectives than to the fact itself.

- Another local press comment: worse than the accident, is the fact that the odds of a Brazilian citizen being shot by mistake in some areas of Rio or Sao Paulo are worse than they were in London, with a "shoot to kill" policy in force.

- The press reported the story mostly as a bad and sad police mistake, surrounded by lots of publicity and deserving discussion not only of the "shoot and kill" policy, but also of the current balance between freedom and safety.

My opinions:

- Legal or illegal, the guy just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, resembling the wrong terrorist and speaking with an odd accent. Sh&t happens.

- Terrorists like to get Brazilian passports because anyone can pass for a Brazilian. Due to a large population of immigrants from all around the world, Brazilians' faces and names may be Arab, European, African, Oriental, etc. My guess is that the Brazilian passport might have increased the police's perception that the guy was a real terrorist.

- An intriguing question is: how do the Israeli police handle similar situations? If they'd commit a mistake like that, the world's negative reaction would have been stronger and last longer, with heavier consequences for the country. And they have reason to enforce that policy ALL the time.

Thanks for the poem Wouter. It leaves aside homosexuals and some other minorities that Nazis killed, but the point is clear and correct: pragmatism has a limit. So the whole discussion circles around two questions:

1) How much freedom is reasonable to sacrifice for safety?

2) How much pragmatism is acceptable before the application of higher principles becomes mandatory?

I guess there is no exact answer for those two, but this has nothing to do with sailing, so I’ll leave you with a question I actually would like to get answers for:

Anyone knows a sailor who has won eight or more World Championships in one class? Paul Elvstrom won 12 Worlds, but in about six classes.

Thanks.

....what this thread turned into....

:rolleyes:

You had me all the way to the end then you blew it! GO OD!

Dave,
The key word is "accept." That's a lot different from want, desire, crave, etc. For many people handicap racing is an "acceptable" alternative when you can't have one-design racing.

Here's some simple math for you:

Catsailor.com = sailing
Catsailor.com >> politics
Therefore, sailing >> politics.
This thread isn't sailing........kill it.

Trey
N20 873
Layline.com

Here's some simple math for you:

Catsailor.com = sailing
Catsailor.com >> politics
Therefore, sailing >> politics.
This thread isn't sailing........kill it.


I second this motion

That's it! Boy did I have a shorthand version stored in my memory, but that's what happens as you get older. The version I heard substituted cars for mechanics and women for lovers. This version works better for both sexes.

There are three things you lose as you age; your hair, your eyesight, and...I can't remember the third thing.

This community is truly amazing (and entertaining). We go from a joke to European politics and policing, and then, somehow, to handicap vs. one design. Truly great leaps in hijacking, but fun.

David
H20 781