Maybe we should be alot more flexible in this. All of us (me included)

Just choice the best local boat as the local youth class and focus on participations first.

Then just fleet of permanently owned (by ISAF) world championship boats with a transport container donated (sponsored) to hold the worlds event on. We don't have to sell these boats each year, we can keep them, unless selling is economically more attractive. Why not just pick an open design and allows all builders to produce against say 250 US$ license fee. And I mean ALL BUILDERS. IN each following year we only need to find financial support for holding the event, shipping the container and the maintainance of the boats.

I really don't want to beat me own drum and I would gladly support the H16+spi in the above setup. But I'm sure that things can be arrange with F16 boats. To react to your points :



How does 236 lbs sound ?





No kidding, if you can get a group together then I'm sure that I can get you a group deal discount at Vectorworks Marine. It is just so much more attractive to produce 10 boats in one single go then spread out.

And if not Vectorworks Marine then AHPC will do it. I will pick up to phone and discuss it directly with Greg Goodall, as I have done often in the past with other things. How does less then 12.000 Euro's or US$ sound for new boats, and that are the going commericial rate WITHOUT DISCOUNT at this time ? In a decent sized group deal I feel we can go down to 10.000 Euro's. How much does a 29-er cost again ? Or the SL16 (14000 Euro's)

My point here is that we can surely arrange for an affordable modern catamaran, cost is not really the problem here As the class I took as an example is already cheaper then the official choices. If we can do it, in an semi-amatuer class like the F16's, then why couldn't it be done in other cases as well ?

How about the home-build option of the F16 class ? I'm sure a few good carpenters can be found in Brasil or Thailand.


How about having over 300 compliant boats around the world already ?

ISAF made her own life difficult by sticking to impossible requirements. AHPC wanted to enter the Taipan 4.9 at the youth class trials (and it would have blown aways the competition for certain) but couldn't because the boat had daggerboards.

For some reason ISAF thinks that daggerboards on a 29-er, laser 1's or splashes are no problem for kids but that they are on catamarans ? Greg Goodall said to me personally that he wouldn't alter the Taipan design from having daggerboards to gaving skegs or something. It would ruin the boat. Of course ISAF also had the grant idea of rubber bumpers on the catamarans. How much of that is on the 29-ers ? Greg really didn't want any of that, and I fully agree with him on that. So AHPC pulled out.


Now this discussion is really not about the merits of the H16 or even the F16, these are just example to make a point. The point being that we we have more then enough possibilities to make a proper youth program work, with a any truly modern catamaran that will shame 49-ers while being shitloads cheaper. Remember a 49-er is 20.000 Euro's or more now. Compare that again to a 12.500 US$ Blade F16 or a 14.500 Euro's FX-one.

I also think that it is high time that we cat sailors take things in our own hands.

Wouter

Who cares what gets their blood going? Why does the ISAF youth boat have to be about attracting youth to the sport? Attracting young sailors to the sport is much more about grass-roots efforts by adults. It doesn't matter what the boat is. Look at the Optimist. There is nothing simpler and more prolific at getting kids interested in sailing. How many of you (us) have sailed an Optimist? Didn't you learn something? It's certainly not a feeder class for America's Cup sailors, but I've watched Dennis Conner and other skippers and crew at that level toe the line in an Optimist with a huge grin on their faces. So you need more speed - what about the Laser. It's not the fastest or most exciting but it's everywhere and nearly everyone has tried it.

In this same vein, how many of you have sailed a Mosquito or a Spitfire? On a percentage basis, not very many. How many of you (us) have sailed an H16? The one or two of you who have not may now exit the room. Since nearly everyone else ligitimately registered on this site has tried one, my point is made: It is the only common denominator available. There will always be a more exciting boat and some dream ride that skilled youth sailors would crawl through flaming lava to sail, but the simplicity of the H16 and its worldwide availablity make it the best choice - currently.

Are you kidding? How about 30,000. In addition, trying to get manufactures to produce a boat specifically for youth sailors would be a tough proposition in an already crowded market. Why reinvent the wheel. This isn't America's Cup here The youth boat should test fundamental skills, not the sailor's thrill threashold.

I think that seeing the world's best youth sailors on a boat that so many young people have access to gives the up-and-comers something to easily identify with and will do more to generate interest than the latest, greatest, unreachable rig.

Makes good sense to me SteveT.I have both a laser and a hobie 16.Are there faster fancier boats?I am sure there are,but my family( wife ,14yr old son and 11yr old daughter) have had a great time sailing and racing both boats.

Matt miller,

I've taken a little look around the web site and if their forum is anything to go my, not much.....





BUT

Brain Phipps has done a vast amount of work to get a squad of kids up and running with the H16 as this is the boat they had to use for events. I am just passing on what I have been told in the dingy park about the H16 and what the kids think about it. Sorry, don't shoot the messenger....

And Wouter......



I think you have some very slow I17 sailors over there. In an F3 I'm just faster than a 49er around the course, in an F4 I am a fair bit faster than them and in a F5-6 I lap them in a 5 lap race......with ease

Also, you say else where on this board that you are happy for us I17 sailors to come and sail with you on parity as the handicaps are almost the same (couple of points I think, and we are grandfathered into the F16 class afterall) - so which is it, is the I17 almost the same speed or not ?

Yeah, looks to be an all new site as of September. Heck the IHCA and HCA-NA don't even have forums. That doesn't mean they aren't trying.

I do feel sorry for those poor Brit kids forced to sail on Hobie 16s though... right! As said before, there are always hopes and dreams about bigger and faster boats to sail. You ask a kid (me for that matter) what would they prefer to sail. There are always going to be dreams. The answer is not always rational.

Exactly why are we so intent on the youth market when they can not even afford one without the help of a family member with a job, there parents are afraid the kid is going to lose interest after one season for something better.It is the parent mostly buying the boat to show the kids how much fun it is the parent must judge how much money they can afford. Most yacht clubs do not have the room to stack 10-15 boats to make it worth while. Most teens will buy a car before a race ready hobie or sl16 kl15 M4.3......I think it better to put them on a popular in the local area boat they can handle and let that desire build but I guess some salesman's family would starve! Bombs Away! Sorry to repeat what some others have already said but a catamaran can be an intimidating craft they handle in spurts foreward whereas dinghy'go sideways then foreward and your inside of it to boot.How many of you have scared the crap out of some kid or adult for that matter on your cat. I was never worried about dismasting or ripping a hull off or flipping in dinghy sailing , the good thing is there is a fifty -fifty chance they will come back for more.My uncle scared me and I was hooked. It took me a long time but I finally found a place where I could keep and use the boat.I now have introduced a few in my wake they like it too. It is a damn exciting aspect to sailing and always will draw a specialized crowd.Finally Hobie has the shear spread of numbers accessible to the "I want to try and sail/race public".There seems to be a "We wanna spread the wealth attitude", with the boat change up for the future.Its also a Euro thing! More bombs Away!

I recommend the I20

take the darwinism/natural selection approach.

Less than 5% of sailing 14yo's can handle a Nacra20 in a stiff breeze, but those who do are gonna be really good

The new British Youth Boat per request by Scooby

Anything less is uncool!

No spi..

But yes, very cool, if a bit unpractical.

and not waterproof.

Sorry there is no kite - Rejected

Check out the Youth fourm on this site. There are three threads that address this issue. But perhaps the most interesting thing about the Youth forum is the lack of youth participating. The ones that do participate are into it because of their parents and sail what their parents sail. The boats they long for, according to their posts, are Hobie 14s and similar small boats. There's even a post from one kid inviting others to check out the NOR for the Youth Championship event on H16s that his dad told him about. "Looks like fun." the kid says.

One of those just got shot down over Cuban airspace last month with a few dissoriented Youth on board.

Right this is more appropriate

I would purchase that for my son..

On the off chance h didnt want it.. Would enjoy the ride myself...