Stay tuned, I'm designing a new 18 from the ground up, will be the fastest boat yet!

Regarding the new Nacra Formula 18:
1. Some will not like its looks. There will be people that prefer the "sleeker" look of the older boat. New boat has wide hulls.
2. There is not a tremendous difference in speed mostly pointing. I do not know why but the newer boat crabs up on puffs a bit better.
3. Older design will be better in the lighter winds due to the thinner hull shape.


Newer design offers:
1. More bouyancy
2. Seems to sail with a bit less rocking in waves.
3. Skipper and crew sail a bit further back on boat, as that is where the fatest part of the boat is.
4. Trampoline sits a little higher out of the water so fewer waves will hit the back crossbar.

Old boat will not be obsolete, as the Capricorn has not yet displaced all other boats on the market, and this boat uses similar concepts. It will take a couple of years to prove any added performance, I think.

All that said, I liked sailing on it. I would like to try racing it.

Later,
Dan

Dan, when I sailed the old boat style, I could easily push the bows under while going downwind when on the wire. That was a major reason I did not buy one. Maybe that is why they fattened them up? Have you noticed a big difference in bow-stuffing resistance with the new boat? I think it looks cool, alot like the Yeves Loday designs.

Hi Jake,
didn`t mean to hit a nerve with the "obsolete" boat comment. All I meant was, as you agree, holding a class regatta outside of F18 will be tricky. Perhaps they should have just called it the M&M F18, and dropped the Nacra label, would start a new class that fits in F18, positive outcome is that a new OD class could then also grow out of that if numbers allow. In some areas / countries, F18 does NOT exist but Hobie Tiger OD class does, even though you believe they are not OD because of all the changes, they are closer to OD than SMOD, (except that you STILL have to buy most bits from Hobie ) If they (Hobie) decided to change the hull shape it would adversely affect sailors in these areas / countries. You would then have Old Tigers and New Tigers, a situation that is undesirable, even if on paper they all have equal performance. As it is with Hobie, you can buy an older boat, do a few upgrades and be at the sharp end of F18 sailing (skill permitting, of course !) That`s what I meant by their strategy - keep the boat the same as long as possible. I`m sure if another make starts winning F18 convincingly they will launch a new boat, but would be remiss to call it a Tiger (in my opinion.) I think Nacra might be hurting their own sales potential by launching a new boat so soon after their latest model (ie yours), it gives sailors the impression that they are not stable as a supplier, like the new car market you wonder how long you`re going to find spares these days because they change models every year.
Just an opinion, like everything I`ve ever written it could be wrong.

Steve,

You're right about one thing - I do seem to have a sensitive nerve about this!

I guess this could be a glass half full / glass half empty kind of thing. The way I look at the fact that Nacra makes a lot of changes is that here is a manufacturer that has embraced F18 and is trying to find a competitive edge. While, on the surface, it does make older equipment first appear to be quickly obsolete, I do have a manufacturer that is doing a lot of development to keep me fast (and this includes the old platform too) and is not worried about making compromises to keep a SMOD class happy.

With regard to SMOD classes - I didn't buy my boat for SMOD. I bought it to race F18 (OD) as did most F18 sailors worldwide. As you indicated in a different thread, I can buy any fitting or rig just about any way using any line I want - or have a sail made the way I want...this is what I like...I can even make the whole boat in my back yard if I felt up to the task.

One point that hasn't been brought up yet is how is NACRA going to handle the Nationals next year in Racine? Are they going to seperate the F18's into two classes? Will they run them together as an F18 class but not allow other manufacturer's boats? Or will they open it up to all F18's?

I don't know what the right answer is to this question. The event is in August with the NAF18's in September. I think if they open it up attendance would suffer at the NAF18's being that they are so close to each other.

Putting the two models together or seperate is going to piss people off either way. It's kind of a no win situation.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

One of the first Nacra F18 nationals was an open event to the Tigers...subsequent events were closed. I can sorta see why it might be closed event (since it's the "Nacra" nationals and all)...but then again, if the manufacturer is fully embracing F18, perhaps an open event makes sense. Regardless, if it comes to decide one over the other, there's no way I'm missing the North American F18 Championships in Lake Carlyle. I think the affect on events might be that the F18 North American's will draw attendence from Nacra NA's...not the other way around.

Timbo: Stuffing the bows underwater is not such a big deal. The big deal is do they come out? I think that the older design sheds water pretty well. I sail a Tiger and I am always concerned when the water is on the deck. With the deck being so flat it likes to stay underwater longer than the older design of the Nacra F18. I have stuffed it to the crossbar downwind and saved it but that is do mostly to the incredible crew that I have. She sticks to the boat like glue and has never fallen so far forward as to pull the boat over (knock on wood).

The new Nacra is designed to take advantage of the fact that you may sail in swells. If it goes down it will shed water better than even the older F18. As far as it getting there in the first place the bow seems to stay higher out of the water without too much tendency to submarine. The boat steers very easily downwind. It kind of sits up and goes were you point it instantly. I think it may be easy to over control it, steer too much. As a matter of fact, very similar to the way a Hobie Fox steers downwind.

Dan

Timbo,
first I believe you sail an N20, and from my experience it is a difficult transition to the F18, even the NACRA F18. I found that it just seemed underpowered, and when it stuffs, it stuffs quick, unlike the N20 which will power up out of almost anything. Most bow stuffs are recoverable though, and the majority of the pitches are done on tight jib reaches, with little time to recover when its puffy. As I look at this design I dont see alot of meat forward like the N20, s Im not sure if it will help this tendency or not, I think 2 more feet will though!
I love both boats, but they are apples and oranges. Now the Tiger and the NACRA F18, they are so close that I dont think anything but pilot skill will seperate those, not even this shiny new design. And although I worry slightly about resale on my 2004 NACRA F18 with this new design, I dont think it will be a big deal on the course. Looks cool though!

If the last part is true than you have wonder why they need another NF18

The Nacra F18 Rules are just the same as the IF18 Rules with the exception that you have to use Performance components (there are some exceptions like blocks and line) to be able to race in Performance Race Week. The F18 and F18 Infusion will race head to head at Racine.

Performance hosted the first two NAF18 North American Championships as part of their Performance Race Week. First in Traverse City, Michigan and then the next year in Pensacola Beach. I heard that there was a bunch of crap that came from the Hobie-only crowd in Pensacola Beach and Performance said "never again". The good thing is that the NAF18 was on its feet by then and has been able to conduct their Championships without additional help from Performance.

I truly believe that there would be no NAF18 if it weren't for Performance, because Hobie resisted it (I don't hink it fit well with their plan to eliminate all non-Hobies from Hobie fleet-run regattas).

I don't resent Hobie for driving a "Hobie-only" campaign, even though I think it is bad for beach cat racing in general. I congratulate them for it! Good business if it works! If it doesn't, they are no worse for it. I think they believed it was the answer to reviving the glory days of the early 80's, and it may turn out that way. We will see. I would love to see 300 boats at a regional championship like I saw in Traverse City in 1981 or 1982! Rick and Mary, I saw you there, sanding your yellow TheMightyHobie18 hulls with 600 grit wet-or-dry! (Maybe it was only Mary doing the sanding, but I saw Rick someplace!) It was a special event and I will never forget seeing all those boats with their sails up getting ready to leave the beach in the morning. Unfortunately, Division 10 no longer has any races.

How did I get here? Must be old age and hardening of the water (it is freezing up here in Michigan!). Sorry for wandering around so much...just seemed to come out!

I was also NAF Vice Commodore at that time and was at the meeting with "the Crap"

The "crap" that you mentioned was NOT from the Hobie side of the participants. I don't want to stir up old stuff, we are well past all that. Hobie Cat Pres Doug Skidmore even showed up to show support for the event and the class. If things were handled better we would be a lot further ahead with F18 in this region. We made it thru all the BS and thanks to Tracie VH and a solid group of volunteers F18 is the fastest growing class in NA right now.

I will address the alleged crap OFFLINE & personally only

Division 10 has been growing again recently with the hard work of Jeff Rabidoux,Matt Bounds, John Bauldry, Lori Mohney and others. They held two HCA sanctioned regattas last year. I was at "Ragata de Gatos" in Port Burwell. It's a great site on big water and we had a great time. They served Margaritas, Salsa and had a great Chicken Fajita dinner.
Attached: Port Burwell Beach H16, H17,H20, Tiger all there.

See, now THIS is how to derail a thread.

Jake: I can do much better than that. Tom and I formed C.R.A.P a long time ago in his kitchen over many beers. "Catamaran Racing And Partying" has been very successful for some time now. We have thought about T-shirts and a membership.

Pat,

What do you require for people to join your C.R.A.P. organization? Can I be a member if I design your T-shirt? You might amend the name to C.R.A.P.Y. "Catamaran Racing and Partying Year-round."

Membership is typically earned by providing a "Cuba Libre" to the founding fathers. Membership is kept secret(ie Skull & Bones). We don't schedule any meetings and when they are over we usually don't recall having them. You are more than welcome to submit T-shirt designs and attend the next meeting. Could be tonight at Amores. The national meeting will probably be Saturday night of the Madcatter.
Attached: Members at a meeting. Casting a thumbs up for something important.

I nominate Jake for HONORARY membership in CRAP/CRAPY.

I'll take my cuba libre @ Tradewinds!!!

Much more positive thread derailment!!!!

Hey Jake design away!!!

TK - are you working on getting Billy to go to Tradewinds?

I'm working on getting some boats from Detroit down there, but I've got to con some poor sucker (John) to drive a triple stack.

(and, yes, I'd be bringing the "big boys" boat)

I hope they are not so close together, if they are, Im heading for the F18 championships over Nacra championships.