The following is really some interesting bit of news

The minutes from a recent US Sailing Multihull Council annual meeting state that a bid has been received from the Melbourne Yacht Club (Florida, USA) to host the 2007 Alter Cup and that Vectorworks Marine will supply 11 new Blade F16's.



It is a big decision for any big boat builder like Hobie and Nacra to supply 11 new boats free of charge, imagine a relative new company like Vectorworks Marine doing just such a thing as well ! But Vectorworks Marine took the jump and the bid is official now.

The Blade F16 will be rather comparable to the Alter Cup boats of late, with the exception of the Hobie 16. It features an asymmetric spinnaker as did the Tiger, F18, Bim jav 2 and Inter 20 before it. It also has a selftacking jib and a snuffer system for the spinnaker, making the demands placed on the crews a little less strenious. In all other aspect it will be a state-of-the art competition catamaran. With the newest large squaretop mainsails, the newest hullshape and a real wingmast (unlike the commonly encountered teardrop shape mast)

It will differ however in some important other aspects.

The Blade F16 will be lightest Alter Cup of (at least) the preceding 8 years and may even become the lightest Alter Cup boat to have ever been used. (A hobie 14 is 2 kg = 4lbs heavier then the Blade F16). This honour is currently held by the Bimare Javelen 2 of 2003 that was (on average) 135 kg. The Blade F16, by being 107 kg, will nearly take 30 kg (= 65 lbs) of this record.

This is something the crews at the end of the race day WILL notice.

The smaller sized sails (spinnaker) will mean that everybody can continiously work the sheets in all conditions. This is a big plus for mixed (male-female), all-female and even any young crews. The big (all male) teams won't be able to bank on their edge in shear power to pull them though. Also the spinnaker and large hull volume will much limit the big boys weight disadvantage in the light stuff. It can well end up being really fair to all.

It is my personal opinion that this could proof a very interesting event indeed. Knowing that the optimal crew weight for the Blade F16 rather central to the make-up of US catamaran teams. This is not a boat favouring featherweights, it is too powerful for that, nor is it a "big boy" boat as it really doesn't need much muscle orf meat on the wires to make it go. The Blade F16 is really very much in the middle of the spectrum.

Past Alter Cup boat were/are :

2007 Blade F16 (bid)

2006 Nacra F18
2005 Hobie Tiger
2004 Hobie 16
2003 Bimare Javelin 2
2002 Hobie Tiger
2001 Nacra Inter 20
2000 Hobie 20
1999 Nacra 6.0


Wouter

Does the free boat come from the land of Oz full crewed by munchkins or do we have to provide the radio transmitter and servos for it ourselves?

Just curious.

The Crew comes from the Lolipop Guild!!!!

Hey Hey Hey...be nice. I'm your Alter Cup Chairman for 2007 and like the past several Alter Cup Events, it's going to be a terrific! This is a great boat and we're tickled to death to have the support from VWM. There's a mutal sense of opportuntity here as is the case with every Alter Cup. Personally, I think more than a few folks are going to be surprised at how well these F16s do handle weight on board. Regardless, everyone rotates on the identically configured boats - it's the ultimate one-design competition.

John Williams has been responsible for the Alter Cup for the 2005, 2006, and laying the ground work for 2007. I'm stepping in to help with the management of the 2007 event (so I haven't done much yet). Jamie Diamond and John Williams have done an incredible job with the past Alter Cups and I hope to be able to contribute in a similar fashion. So be nice, because I'm one of the ones that will be reviewing the peititions for open slots!

Jake,
I hate to be a stickler for details, but so far the Alter Cup Committee and the Multihull Council have not announced that the bid of Melbourne Yacht Club has been accepted for the 2007 Alter Cup. Nor has it been announced that the offer of Vector Works to supply the boats has been accepted.

If all this has been voted on and approved, you should send out a press release to all relevant media, including Catamaran Sailor, so we can publish the information. So far all we can do is assume the bids will be approved, which is not good enough.

For all I know, you may have a deadline by which all bids must be submitted and you have to wait to see if there are any competing bids.

Mary,

You're right - and I overstepped here a good deal jumping to the defense of the Alter Cup and the Blade F16. As Wouter accurately described above, a bid has been received from VWM and Melbourne. I should not have indicated that it was official (egg on face).

Jake,

Thanks for stepping up and taking over for JW.

And by the way, have I mentioned that you look marvelous lately:)

Wouter,
Can you post a picture or rendering of the Blade F16 mast section? I'm curious to learn more about the differience between what you describe as the teardrop and "true wing mast." I'd alway assumed the tear drop was a wing mast.

Thanks

Bill

Hi Mary -

When have I ever done a "press release?" I only wish I were that officious.

Here's the deal for real. First, no manufacturer ever supplies anything for free (sorry Wout). We court the boat makers, and we pay a charter fee. Thanks to the efforts of past Chairmen and volunteers, and the financial support of one major donor, the charter fee is not passed along to the competitors, making the Alter Cup the least expensive of the adult championships per sailor per day by a very wide margin. So next time you see him, thank Mr. Bill Jolley for making the Alter Cup what it is today.

To be fair, while we pay a charter fee to the manufacturer (or sometimes a specific dealer), the fee is very, very reasonable and that constitutes a financial contribution on their part. It also reflects their commitment to supporting multihull sailing. It takes a lot to woo those factory guys and dealers who subsequently have to commit to selling 11 slightly-used boats in a specific region - not always an easy task in today's market. I've been a real PITA working to make sure each "next" event would happen - ask anybody at the US factories, and see if they don't roll their eyes when you mention my name. That's another reason I'm stepping down - they're all tired of hearing from me.

Secondly, Mary, there was only one other club that was considering bidding for 2007 and they were not able to work out something with a boat maker, so they did not bid this year - I hope they do for 2008. It is the clubs that do the real work once the boat issue is sorted - I know that anyone who has hosted an Alter Cup will agree that is it NOT easier to run an event that "only" has ten boats on the water. Running any championship is difficult - the Alter Cup comes with unique challenges in format and race management.

So, while there hasn't been a press release, you can expect the Spring meeting minutes to reflect an official announcement with dates and venue-specific information. The intent is to let everyone competing in the annual ladder events (the Area Eliminations) know before their event is sailed what the Championship boat will be - this might influence what they will sail in their qualifier, and allows them to select appropriate crew and alternate crew so that their Area entry form is complete.

I suppose we have been fortunate in a weird way - bids to host the Championship are almost always solicited by the committee in charge of organizing the event. We've never had more than one bid at a time that I know of. That means we've never had to tell a club "no." I would feel pretty bad, knowing how much of a commitment it is to host one of these events, telling someone "thanks, but no thanks." That would suck. Sure, it would be nice to have clubs and manufacturers clamoring to get involved, but considering the reality of the market and sailing in general here in the US, this event has been remarkably fortunate to have found such willing and able hosts, as well as cooperative manufacturers.

Still reading? Thanks for hanging in there.

Take a look at these pictures :










In the second picture the section looks more quashed then it is in real life. This probably dependent on my screen resolution. Also I did use a very cheap (mobile phone) digital camera.

When you hold the Superwing section in your hand it feels alot thinner and more pointy in the front.

Sadly I don't have a cut off piece of a teardrop shape mast. But the following spec will give you an idea.

Both the Tiger and AHPC superwing mast are about 150 mm "long"; the superwing is 63 mm at its thickest point across the crossection while the Tiger section is just over 90 mm (= 43 % thicker). This makes quite a difference. So for a given longitudal length the wing mast is significantly thinner. The superwing ration length/thickness = 150/63 = 2.38 while the tiger = 1.67 In some way you can compare this ratio to the aspect ratio of the sails.

In addition to this difference The shape of the crossection is different. The teardrop shape masts has a front halve that closely resembles a circle. The rear part is faired into a curved triangle part leading up to the sail groove.

A wingmast has a front part that is elliptical in shape and this part is nearly 2/3rd of the whole section. The far rear end to faired towards the sail groove.

In he drawings I had difficulty to get it right but with wingmasts the point of maximum thickness is further back then with the teardrop shaped masts. I have held cut-offs of both sections in my hand and then the differences in shape and size is quite dramatic. The teardrop sections look and feel alot more bulky and crude in comparison.

In order to give the mast its minimal required stiffness in the sideways plane, ribs are added to the inside of the mast. These serve two functions, -1- the increase the sideways resistance to bending (which would be significantly less than the teardrop shape mast without the ribs). -2- to support the thin walls and prevent the mast failing under buckling.
a direct result is that the ratio between bending in the two planes can be fully engineered, and the mast section as a whole can have a smaller wallthickness leading to a significant weight reduction on the mast. A fully fitted Aluminium superwing mast weights between 3 to 4 kg (7 to 9 lbs) less then an aluminium Hobie FX-one mast of equal length.

Well known boats that use wingmast sections are : A-cats, Taipan 5.7, Taipan and Blade F16's, Capricorn F18 and the Ventilo or Bim F18HT's. The use of a true wingmast is said to be part of the succes of these designs and their rigs.

The two sections do seem to require a different approach to tuning. The wingmasts are often more flexible in the sideways plane and as such the mast rotation control together with the leech tension set on the mainsail are important. The elliptical shape of the crossection leads to these boat sailing with less mast rotation then a normal teardrop shape masts. The improved aerodynamic behaviour of the wingmast section allows a crew to forget about the proper transition from mast to sail. Sometimes the mast is strongly underrotated with respect to the draft of the mainsail and still the creation of seperation zones on the lee side of the sail (and close the mast) are very limited. It looks really funny but such a trim can actually be quite fast in strong winds. With such an underrotated mast the top section of the mast pumps with each gust, taking the head of the sail with it thus inducing temporary twist. This depowers the rig in the top like nobodies business while maintaining alot of drive low in the sail. When you are looking for power again, just let the rotation out a little more and the top powers up fully.

Sailing with the Superwing mast section is very lively. It feels like the mast section is talking to you. It responds to each trim and tuning adjustment in a clear and predictable way. You also quickly feel the range of depowering and powering-up, and this is quite a large range.

The first sailing with this mast in a heavy blow with strong gusts is something to experience. The top is bending away quite significantly during the gusts when the rotation is set to allow this. If the rotation is not set for it then the tops stayes where it is, you can tweak the bending off wind velocity like that. However the mast section itself is very resistance to abuse. Under a fully powered up spinnaker you initially fear for the mast but soon you learn that the mast can handle huge amounts of bending and abuse. Having said this I'm sure that there is a point where the mast had enough and folds; but I haven't it yet.

I truly think this superwing mast section is a joy to sail and I do my stints on Tigers and sort each year.

Does this answer your question ?

Wouter

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Wouter,

I would be interested as well about a true wing mast cross section. I too always assumed the tear drop shape was a symmetrical airfoil. I have seen them on competition aerobatic airplanes. The Pitts S2B and the Christian Eagle were the last ones I saw up close (I know I am a few years behind with the planes, but I haven't seen an Extra up close yet).

Thanks for clearing that up John - I'll take my lashings later.

Jake

How can I be nice when I can't squeeze under the boom of those things? When I say big, I'm talking y-plane dimensions, not x/z

NP, Jake - you missed that conference call so you couldn't have known. As for lashes, you get a whole year for that! Just kidding. Not really.

Hey mate,

Maybe you should take out some time and get your facts (statements) right.

You call yourself MauganH17 as in H17 = Hobie 17 and you think that you can't fit under the boom of an F16 ? I nearly fell on the floor when I read that one as I've never sailed with a boom setup as low as on the good old H17 ! I had to slither underneath the H17 boom and still have my bouyancy aid hang up on the boom. In the end I just went from one side of the boat to the other by passing in front of the mast.





I really wonder wether you have ever sampled the height under the F16 boom seriously.

There is 500 mm there = close to 2 feet clearing. F18 booms are lower; H16 booms are way lower.

I knew this little bit of Alter Cup news would leave a certain portion of the sailors REALLY sour but you are truly surpassing the wildest of my expectation.




Ohh, and I just thought you were describing the magnitude of your prejudice !

Wouter

Theres a couple good reasons why I don't sail the H17 anymore, and this was one of them Vouter.



Been on a taipan 4.9 Very uncomfortable for me. Sorry its just the god's honest troof. I don't sail F18's and have never ever in my whole life stepped foot on a H16.



My femur bone alone is more than 2 feet. Let me say that I have a hard time getting under the boom of the I20, Trey can attest to that, so can anyone thats been on the water and heard me cursing from miles away when I hit my head or get snagged on something. The whole reason I moved to catamarans in the first place (well aside from the adrenalin rush of the speed) was because of the total lack of any kind of space on dinghies. You ever tried racing a 420? I did, and my shins hated me. I like big boats (relatively speaking) and big wide open trampolines with plenty of room to organize the spaghetti and to stretch out when stuck on a windless day in the middle of the summer.



No, its just the size of my disdain for your continued efforts to promote the F16 as the panacea of all catamarans for all sailors. If you truly realized how annoying it is to read every single "What boat should I get?" thread only to find its been perverted into another F16 group orgy, you'd cease and desist yesterday.

Are we talking about the Taipan 4.9 ? Was I writing about the Taipan 4.9 ?

No, we are talking about F16's and the Blade F16 in specific. Indeed, the Taipan 4.9 boom is low, is was one of the first things that got modified in the F16 setups. Take a look at the picture of the Blade again, how low is that boom ?






Inter-20 boom is about the same height as the F18 booms. If you have trouble on the I-20 as well then what boat type is good for you ? Stilleto 26 ? maybe Orange 2 ?

Don't make this is pissing fest on the Blade F16. We didn't hear you moan and groan when the Nacra F18 (or Inter-20) was selected for the 2006 (2001) Alter Cup.





Yep. However the last dinghy I sailed was the 49-er. Lots of boom clearence there.





And so you are taking it out on the Alter Cup guys/volunteers and the factory who is willing to take the economic risk and provide the boats for the 2007 Alter Cup. Not to mention the fact that you are pissing on the chips of the smaller crews who in the last 8 years graciously contented with 7 AC events being sailed on boats favouring big crews.

But despite this lack of taste you are not in the least bit ashamed to dispense with all kinds of sour comments.

At least there are some positive cat sailors around who actually make things like the Alter Cup happen every year, who build new classes and who advance the sport of beach catamaran sailing. There wouldn't even be a Inter-20 or F18 class if it wasn't for annoying little persons like myself. We'd all still be sailing Hobie and Prindle 16 and I'm sure you would have loved that.

So do yourself a favour and stop acting like a disrespecting grumpy old fool.

Wouter

Oh boy, this is going to be fun. Trolling you is so incredible easy Wouter.



The gooseneck looks pretty damn low to me. Let out enough mainsheet on any boom and you can get under it even if you were the Jolly Green Giant. Not only that, but the tramp space is so small, there's no way in hell we could both go under the boom at once without either my head getting shoved into the mast, or me pushing the skipper off the back of the boat. Since Trey's a bit heavier than myself, I'm going to go ahead and say he'd win that, and I'd get a black eye.



I "wasn't around" when the boat was chosen for those years. I wouldn't have put up resistance to those boats however. Why? Because they don't have an annoying bastard of a representative that infects every single corner of cyberspace with his crap about the next coming of the catamaran messiah in fiberglass form.



You know where I can find a trailer for Orange 2? Way to be practical.

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And so you are taking it out on the Alter Cup guys/volunteers and the factory who is willing to take the economic risk and provide the boats for the 2007 Alter Cup.

I'd like to know where exactly I said, "what morons these people are!?!?" I poked fun in jest at a boat design that I don't like. I said nothing about the people involved, or the event. I realize that English isn't your first language, but please.

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Not to mention the fact that you are pissing on the chips of the smaller crews who in the last 8 years graciously contented with 7 AC events being sailed on boats favouring big crews.

Since when has F18 favored the heavier crews?

I'm sure you'll pull some numbers straight out of your nether-regions to prove that the combined crew weight of 323.348813lbs in average winds ~12.66667 knots is a favorable situation for an F18. Excuse me if my significant digits are off. I'm not an engineer, I'm only a ...

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disrespecting grumpy old fool

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At least there are some positive cat sailors around who actually make things like the Alter Cup happen every year, who build new classes and who advance the sport of beach catamaran sailing. There wouldn't even be a Inter-20 or F18 class if it wasn't for annoying little persons like myself. We'd all still be sailing Hobie and Prindle 16 and I'm sure you would have loved that.

Well at least we can find common ground in something, although you really take

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annoying little persons like myself

to whole new levels.

To sum up my feelings on the whole thing,

1) My comment about the munchkins was in jest, and I've been informed that it was pretty funny to more than just one person.

2) I have no issues with anyone on the Alter Cup. In fact, I respect all the named members of the organization as people and sailors. I only respectfully disagree with the selection of the boat used. However as someone who is (obviously) probably not going to participate, they should take my comments about as seriously as I take yours Wouter.

3) My only issues with the boat are its size, and its overbearing, overzealous, shameless self-promotion at the hands of a particular representative.