I'm puzzled. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Are all Mozzies set up with this amount of hardware up the mast? Why would you have your trapezes on a sparate tang aft of the rotational axis of the mast? This is just placing an unecessary additional axial loading on the mast. Almost all cat masts that I know of have the stays set on the lowest hole of the hounds fitting and the traps on the highest hole. Sometimes people will split the stays and have the forestay on a separate shackle on the middle hole, but I've never seen a set-up such as this.

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Tim,

Thanks for the info. I'll go in search of T ball fittings this week. I'll try to set up most of the system but leave the final positioning until the weekend and bring it along to play with at Hazelwood. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Regards,

Peter

Tony,

Trouble !! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I don't see how the system worked when the diamonds were mounted above the hounds. As Jalani says the trapeze wires will be working against the natural mast rotation axis and inducing more stress. This is definitely not good. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The diamond wire mountings also look very bulky and appears to stick out too far from the mast. My existing mast has the swaging built into a Ronstan flat bar fitting that was then bent to allow just sufficient space for the swaging to contact the mast. The trouble with that is that you can't see the mast or clean it or see what corrosion has been progressing. I'll definitely be going for the T Ball fittings with my new mast.

Regards,

Peter

Hi Tony

Oh well there goes another theory!

The answers to your questions are:
1. I don't think many would go 180 degrees in the boat park but when you are going downwind in pressure and the leeward sidestay goes loose the mast may get around that far. It depends on your mainsheet/boom setup and whether you are using a vang (rotation inducer) or not, and on the amount of rig tension (lots will limit the rotation).

2. If you have too much weather helm going to windward then you probably can't rake the mast back. Lifting the centreboards or using smaller ones would help but if your cases are not in the maximum aft position this will only make a small difference.

If you can get 120 degrees now, that may be enough.

Hi John

I think many used to be like this but these days new masts usually have just the stainless tang with two holes as you describe.

I think that the rigging and fitting layouts of most non-SMOD classes have got a lot simpler over the years.

Jalani

Yes this mast is hardware central... unfortuneately the way it was when I bought the boat. The mast only has another season in it due to a lot of corrosion in the base and the mast is actually bent rearwards by 20mm when the diamonds are released.

The odd setup in my earlier pic you added to your post was only done today as an attempt to clear the side stays. I normally run the side stays in the bottom hole and the for stay in the top hole as in the attached pic.



Yay it worked.... cheers.

Another point to mention is the hounds that are on my mast are no longer made so god knows how old this mast actually is..??

Peter

You can only imagine.. not very well. Most people hang the trap off the hounds which I think I will do to help with rotation...

Yes there is a lot of unnecessary bulky hardware which will go once I replace the mast.. I will probably end up with this T-Ball method. The simpler the better in my opinion. You will have to let me know how you go with yours...

Whoever initially put this mast together didn't put much thought into it... and I am certainly no expert. This is where this forum is so great.

Cheers

Tim

Thats ok, it was worth trying... and if nothing else all this talk and pics is showing Peter and anyone else how 'not' to assemble a mast, lol.

I realise that the masts rotate with pressure but didn't know how much free rotation a mast should have when not under load (on the beach, no sail)... Even with the little binding I have now I think I will be fine for this season at least. Then its mast replacement time.

I really like the feel of the boat now with no rake.. and I am 92Kgs at the moment so I need all the power I can get, hehehe so I certainly don't want to rake the mast... and as I found out really has little affect on the binding anyway.. thats why in the first pic I put the side stays in the top hounds hole to see if that would help.

Thanks for the help..

Actually I have a very similar hounds fitting on my "new" mast (built earlier this year). The fitting is made by AHPC. It only has two holes and looks like a heavier guage of stainless but otherwise is the same.

For a while Mozzies were using the A-class style fitting that sits inside the mast with just the tang coming out through the mast. This looks very neat indeed, but a Taipan, in the states I believe, tore the stays shackle right through the fitting and when I asked for one AHPC told me they didn't recommend them for sloop rigged boats any more. So now they sell a fitting that looks just like the one you have.

Tim

Yeh, mine is an old Ronstan, model number RF1 which is no longer listed in their catalog. It is fairly flimsy as there are some pretty impressive bends in it from the D shackles twisting it. A friend of mine has just built a mast using the tang through a hole idea.. looks neat I must say. According to my calculations I still have around 50mm left in the hounds attachment range so I may be able to re-attach the hounds 50mm further up the mast therefore clearing the diamonds completely, this would also be worth doing as I am 92Kg. My only worry is a lot of holes in the mast where the loading is the most. I could patch it I guess... any thoughts..

Cheers

Tony, provided the holes in the extrusion (once the fittings are removed) are perfectly round and there is no sign of cracking or tearing, you should be able to simply plug each one with a blind rivet of the correct size with no real reduction in structural integrity of the mast. Don't forget to use good quality aluminium rivets as they are only being used to plug the holes. It would still do no harm to use an insulating paste though.

Hey its Ben from sydney. Can i buy a new mast section in sydney For my mozzie?

I have just gone through the process of getting a new mast in Brisbane. It was going to be too hard to transport an 8m extrusion from the association in Melbourne so I hunted around for something else and found that the Calypso cat supplier had them also. I think it was a calypso 14 mast section. Just check the dimensions before purchasing. From memory, it was significantly more expensive than purchasing from the association, but considering no transport companies wanted to touch it, it was the only option for a new mast.

Does anyone know who manufactures the extrusion?

I deal with most aluminium producers in my job... If it is Capral who make the extrusion it will be produced in Queensland and their road transort system takes it through Sydney to Melbourne then onto Adelaide. The only worry I have is their max lengths are usually 6.5m not 8m, this may cause issues, hence the trouble nickb had. Also they may only produce masts for the association once in a blue moon and will probably not have any in stock.

You may be able to arrange something through Capral if they are the manufacturer and have stock that is... if not then nickb's option may be the go. I would contact the National Association and talk to them regardless. I am sure they have shipped masts around the country before.

I have called capral, onesteel and smorgons, all played dumb when it came to mast sections and knew nothing about them. I suspect I was talking to the wrong ppl or the dies are owned by other companies and hence not available to the general public.

Nickb/Ben

I have contacted the South Australian Mosquito Association to see if anyone knows where these masts come from and who owns the dies. In the meantime I will call the people at Crane Aluminium and Capral that I know and see what I can find out. Unless I have the profile/extrusion number I may not get far!!!

Peter/Jalani/Tim
I have remounted my trapeze wires on the top hole of the hounds so as not to fight against mast rotation, thanks for all the input, its been a good topic this one.

Cheers

Tim
Is this the one (F16)... $66 from AHPC. Looks like it will work a treat..



Cheers

Hi all,

couldn't agree more excellent post. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I wish this forum was around when I bought my first Mossie,mind you I didn't have a computer LOL. Certainly would have saved me some time, as I was the only active boat in the area at the time and had nobody to talk to, but the rigging tuning guide was very useful.

My first Mossie sail number 1111, mast was covered with hardware and filled with foam <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, it took two people to lift it upright <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. It was one of the best upgrades I did for the old girl she hadn't been raced competitvly for years and it is weird what some people do to an old Mossie, if they don't seek help within the class. I would highly recomend this upgrade for any of the realy old Mossies, as it is one of the cheapest performance improvements you can make, buying of the Assoc. that is.

As far as getting sections don't go racing off reinventing the wheel, my recollection is that some major negotiations had to be done recently regarding, Dies, Joblots and Manafacturers, Capral rings a bell. I am sure Tim can come up with the info from Philip W/S as I think he did at least some of the work if not all. So hang five and should have the facts of the situation soon, another thing we can discuss at Hazelwood tuning this weekend <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi Tony,

the rake you describe sounds very familiar, I am also 90kg. and found myself sailing with little rake on my boats, none of which had the centreboards back to the max. The main thing is the boat feels sweet and balanced, regardless of rake it will be fast in strong winds with our weight.

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Guys

As promised this is hot off the press from the secretary of the South Aussie Mozzie Association.. wow that ryhms, hehehe, oh its been a long day.... anyway here it is.