Wouter:

I recently received this "plan" from a friend. For ill or nil, it is an increasing sentiment here at home.

Despite its assertion to the contrary, arguing the logic is simple. But, this is an emotional outpouring, nothing rational about it. Thing is, for the most part, I agree


The Plan!

Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says "I love New York" in Arabic.



You gotta love Robin Williams......
Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin
Williams to come up with the perfect
plan. What we need now is for our
UN Ambassador to stand up and
repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to
argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace
but I have not heard of a plan for
peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good ole boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave.We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered u p and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available
to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort
to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way , no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer
saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "

Pete,

I have read (and heard) this before, and it's not true that Robin Williams wrote it.
Ref:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp


What probably is true, is that many in the US feel this way. It fits very well with the view that the US _is_ the world, or at least the part of it that matters.

What I think of when I read that piece, is the kids who will take their toys with them home and end play, if you dont do as they like.

Amazing how well playing on fear and creating external enemies works in politics, on both sides.

Along the same lines, here's some soldiers in action. I think they are Dutch attacthed to the UN Peace keeping forces in Kosovo? Anyone know who these guys are?

http://www.break.com/index/kosovo.html

I hope that link works for you.

PS. I was a pilot in the US Air Force for 8 years, I got to particpate in Desert Storm I, in 1991-2. (the Rescue of Kuwait) I got out shortly after that, because I didn't like being pimped out all over the world, to support our forign policy, which I strongly disagree with.

When I joined in 1983, the "Threat" was Russia and a nuclear war. I was all for defending America from that threat. After that threat went away, you could see the Generals madly scrambling to find another "Threat", so their budgets wouldn't get cut and their bases wouldn't get closed.

Thus began the effort to "Install Democracy Around the World". That should keep the Generals busy for many years to come! Seen the movie "Team America" yet? Fk-Yeah! Dirka Dirka...

I dont know them personally, but they are norwegians from our NATO rapid response contingent "Telemark Bataljon".
http://www.tmbn.no/

Easily recognizable both on their uniforms and equipment.

Rolf: Congratulations on Norway's gold in the Olympics, and thanks for setting the record straight, regarding Robin Williams.



Sorry, but that's how I feel! America is villanized for all that we do wrong, and scoffed at for all that we do right.

I'm not an isolationist, yet. But, I do think we should prioritize domestic need and rethink our role in "globalization".

You might feel differently if Norway was subject to terroist attack to the same level the U.S. is. If memory serves, this ( Muslims killing Americans ) has been going on since the '70s. I'm ready to take off the gloves!

Timbo; Haven't seen "Team America", but I will.

btw- Not that it's the same as being shot at, but I spent a couple of years in a tank in Germany. I'm not terribly impressed with U.S. foreign policy either.

So, first trying to globalize the world. Then discovering that there are some problems attached, deciding to back off, the heck with the rest of it (and sorry for the damages associated...).

What about building a big wall around the country? it is very trendy lately...

IMHO, pretty lame... and for sure the perfect recipe for decadence and decaying.

To those outside the US reading this thread:

Please note that the opinions offered by Tikipete and DavidN are NOT representative of all opinions in the US nor of all US opinions on this particular website.

Thanks, I was getting worried.

"No one likes us-I don't know why. . ."

This where the problem lies. Bullying the rest of the world like we are doing now does not bring friends.

Basically it is not "nobody likes us", but "nobody likes our foreign, energy & environemental policies and the associated global mess".

Unfortunately, because of the 2004 elections it looks from the outside that the american people approves it.

Guys, I don't think this is the place for a political discussion, and I am really surprised it hasn't turned into a flame war.. But the fact is that the US has interfered in many places that it really shouldn't have such as panama, grenada, Veitnam, Nicaragua, Cuba (I mean bay of pigs) etc, etc. And ok, Desert storm seems legit, but this latest Iraq war is completely ridiculous. Absolutely no way that Sadam was any threat, even the Israelies publicly stated this and questioned the US reasons for going to war. In fact Sadam was keeping the place together. Bush knew this, that's why he wouldn't let Hans Blix finish the job and a formal report. But the US has done a number of great deeds, such as WW2 and others which the world really is greatful. Where we REALLY have a problem now is Iran, and north korea and now the US is already caught up in another war and can't do anything about them..
Watch what happens to Hugo Chavez..He will either have an "accident" or the cia funded "rebels" will overthrow him..Why? just because Bush doesn't like what he is saying? The US media is already conditioning the US people that Chavez is a"Bad Guy"...

[quote] Absolutely no way that Sadam was any threat, /quote]

Gassing the Kurds was sufficient reason for me! Forget American foreign policy, why wasn't the UN more involved. Isn't that why we have the UN! Someone should have done something about Rwanda and God knows how many other places around the world.

My disagreement with the America bashers is that you are always willing to do nothing, and then scream bloody murder when someone says enough! For you folks nothing is sacred, nothing is worth dying for.

I have to go look at a trailer now, but. . .
"I'll be back!"

btw- has anyone seen "Hotel Rwanda"?

Could well be, we were part of that. Another NATO action that the UN didn't approve and later turned out to be one big smoke and mirrors excersize. KLA staged massacres and such to get Nato in and drive the Serbs out for them. Lets not go there now.

Wouter

Dave, I'm affraid you give our CIA way too much credit, they can't even find Osama Bin Laden! There is no way they can do anything about Hugo Chavez! Hey, come to think of it, Castro is still around, right? See?

If you want to see how they operate (poorly) pick up a copy of "Killing Pablo" about the CIA trying to catch and kill Pablo Escobar, the Columbian Drug Lord. It took them years of trying and the guy was living in downtown Bogata! He was finally shot dead by Columbian troops, with some help from the CIA, but talk about a F'd up mission! It's no wonder they can't find Osama.

In the days immediately after the 9-11 terrorist attacks which killed about 3,000 civilians, I was all for putting a couple NUKES into Saudi Arabia. Why? Because 15 of the 19 Hi Jackers were Saudi. Osama is a Saudi. They are all receiving financial aid from Saudi's. Why we went into Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia is way beyond me....but you know Bush is best buddies with the Saudi's, it's all about the oil. The Saudi's don't like us, they like our money. We are funding terrorism every time we fill up at the pump.

On Iraq, you are right, Sadam was holding the place together. That's why Bush's Dad didn't take him out in 1992!

And to you outside the US, you know that Bush DIDN'T get more of the people's votes than Al Gore in 2,000. He won on the "Electoral College" technicality and 3,000 Florida old ladies voted for Pat Buchanan by mistake, becuase they couldn't read the ballots! In 2004 he only got 52% of the vote, which means 48% of us (very nearly half) did NOT vote for him so please do not think that we all support his actions. His "aproval rating" is down to 42% I think.

Don't give us this "gassing Kurds" nonsense Pete.

That happened halveway during the 1980's when US support for Saddam was on its peak and even remained so for a while after.

Pretty bloody late to do something about this some shy 20 years later. Or can we expect the US to invade Rwanda somewhere around 2015 in order to stop any more hutu's being slaughtered ?

One reason why US receives some flak from the outside is its enduring practice of providing complete unbelievable justifications and pretty much insulting everybodies intelligence.

Wouter

Yes I agree that that the Saudi problem is also a big one. I guess the US can't lean on them too much..They buy a lot of F16s..

Pete: I can comfort you with that we and the danes are probably the next big-time targets. Seems like two of our smaller (5000copys a day) newspapers has pissed off the united muslim world by printing some caricatures of Mohammed. Count is now up to three burned embassies and they are making flags to burn like it was toiletpaper.

I agree with you that you should think more domestic. You are about to be passed by China and India if you dont get your economy and politics together.
When you take a high-profile, you will also get the attention that comes with it. Especially so when you let your military visit other lands "in force". Doing humanitarian aid is a far cry from pre-emptive invasions. If you did not strike out on your own, but went trough the UN instead, you would not be in the position you are today. But your political leadership obviously can not accept that.
As for taking the gloves off, the US has had gauntlets on for a good while now.

If you are getting tired of hearing about muslims killing americans, how tired do you think muslims are of having their family members killed by americans? What do you belive the body count is on both sides since the 70s? I dont know for sure, but I think you have ended a couple of more muslim lives than they have killed americans. From an outside viewpoint, it is your heavy handed and rough shoed dealings with the arab world that have brought you in the position you are today.
You have had one muslim terrorist attack in the US (am I wrong?), and a terrible one at that. It was executed by extremists, the same ones that are just now whipping the muslim world into beliveing that danes and norwegians hates muslims. You have lots of muslims in the US, even Mike Tyson converted to Islam while in prison, and they dont bother you much, do they? It's the extremists you need to watch and catch, but not muslims in general. Whats happing today is the extremists dream come true.
If Martin Luther had not started the reformation within the church, and we had missed the renaissance, we could be where the muslim world is today. Just look at muslim women and how they strive for change every day. Historically, christians and jews could find a safe haven in muslim countries (not today). The muslim world missed both reformation and the renaissance, two outmost important parts of our history. Then their leaders became more fundamental and their interpretation of Islam change for the worse. Effectively, they never left the middle age.
I wonder if they are so angry becouse they see how we westernes live, and they dont understand why they dont have the same rights and opportunities (beeing f*ked over by europeans and others for the last 200 years dont help). Instead they are beaten around the head by their mullahs if they dare to think different. Working for a reformation or renaissance would probably get the average muslim killed.

Sorry for rambling on and being long winded. I see for myself here in little Norway how many muslim immigrants fail to integrate with us ethnic norwegians. Instead they gather in what I would call ghettos and try to change everything around them to be similar to what they left when they escaped their countries. That is really a problem, and who do I blame? Our government who failed to demand from them that they learnt our language and customs so they at least had a chance to integrate. Now they are going after our freedom of speech and free press..
Feeling victimized when getting critique for your own foreign policy is turning things on its head and really should make a lot of questions come to mind. Besides, if you go abroad you will experience that you are welcome most places on the globe. Just leave the weaponry at home and do business instead (or dont do business if you dont like the guys).

A question. How is it possible for a guy who need daily dialysis to run around the mountains in Pakistan/Afghanistan and escape the collective special forces community, intelligence community, satelittes and the military with a large reward on his head? Why have you not caught bin Laden and let him meet justice yet? I supported the invasion of Afghanistan fully, and would like to see him in front of a court in Haag or even Nurnberg.

Pete: What tank did you drive in Germany. M48 or something earlier? I have two years on the upgraded Leopard I (bet you saw it while in Germany) with gyro stabilized fire-control. Always cool to meet a fellow cavaleryman

Hey, I just thought of something after reading your post on Muslims in Norway. I have read a book called "Death of the West" by our own right wing politician/news comentator, Pat Buchanan. (the same who was running for US President in 2000 from post above). In that book he talks about the eventual take over of all of Europe, then the US, by Muslims, without ever firing a shot. How? Birth rates. According to his research, since the advent of the birth control pill in the 1960's, European and US women have basically shut down the production of babies. They entered the work force and stopped having kids. Their birth rate is well below 2.0, more like 1.2 I think is what he said. That won't sustain the population.

Meanwhile the European/US Muslim Immigrant birth rate is more than double that. 2.9 or 3.4 depending on which country you are looking at. Spain had the highest Muslim birth rate (and Muslim imigran population), France was second I think... but he says that by the year 2050, the Muslims will have more than 50% of the population of the traditional western European countries and have a very big impact on the US population as well, like 1/3. Think about that!

Hey, I'm doing my part, I have 4 kids, but the rest of you SLACKERS need to get busy and start pushing out some kiddies! And more than 2! Wouter, why isn't that female crew of yours knocked-up yet?? Get on it! You can still race your F16 Solo! And I want to see the video.

Now you know why the Catholic Church has always opposed birth control. There is much security in numbers!

And, we are selling the Saudi's F15's, but they don't fly them very well!

The Israeli's get the F16's and they also get Nukes. The Palestinians and Iranians are lucky the US has not allowed Isreal to use them yet but it's going to happen "by mistake" pretty soon, with the new Palestinian Hammas Government and the Iranians, telling the World they are going to wipe Isreal off the planet. The truth is, the Israelie's have the weaponry to wipe both Iran and Palestine off the map in about 10 minutes...Get ready, it's coming!

Not exactly a pacifist point of view!!! Sounds like civilization clash.

You seem happy to see this coming. Fight, fight. Some are really starving for fighting and killing ---> I call them extremists (west side and arab side as well).

Some others like me just see the absolute madness going on with the thousands killed as collateral damage. It is simply disgusting.

By the way IMHO, Hamas got there because of the Bush/Sharon tandem handling the palestinian problem.