In an effort to get back to talking about sailing, I have a serious question.
Lets say I wanted to get a smaller boat (which I do, and doesn't require a forklift on the beach) to sail with my wife. I would want a boat that you could sail 1 or 2 up (most often with 2) with spinnaker that has a somewhat active class. The total weight would be about 275. Take away the possibility of soloing, I would guess that the F18 (infusion, older Nac F18, don't know much about tigers). But the F18 boats are almost as heavy as my 6.0. Now the whole F16 issue is interesting because you can solo them (if I understand my quick read of the f16 forum). I take it the Blade (is this a brand of boat or type of boat?) is of this class. What is the weight of an F16 and what other manufacturers make them? And how active is the f16 class in the US?

This will be more dangerous and contentious than the political discussion

yeah.... esp with Wauter being an F16 dude...!!

But I am interested in a sprited discussion... because it is a serious question! I bought my 6.0 without doing much research and, although it is a nice boat, I probably would have done better with something else.

oops.. just realized there is a very helpful link in the first post of the High Performance F16 Forum.
Can I start one called "Low Performance F16 Forum?"

F16 is a box rule class similar to the F18 with some subtle (and not so subtle) changes. See these websites:

F16 class: http://www.formula16.org/
Blade sites: http://www.vectorworkssail.com/f16.html
http://www.bladecatamarans.com/

I chose an F16 because I wanted a spin, wanted to be able to single and double hand (with my small children), wanted to be able to handle (right from a capsize, push it around on the trailer/beach, etc.) the boat all by myself and still be quick enough to be fun. The F16 fit my needs better (no min weight, 240 lb boat, growing class) than the F18 - nothing agains the F18, but I would not use it as much as it a F16 (in my way of thinking).

The F16 class is much smaller and not many on the Gulf Coast, but hopefully the class will continue to grow. I hope to be in your neck of the woods some this spring, summer and fall.

I was hoping you would respond Tom. Seems like our reasoning is the same in favor of the F16 and would be great to meet up with you if you come down.
What do you think the "distance" (in quotes, because it is relative) potential of the 16? Would it do well on the around the island race?

We will find out about performance in the RTI this September!! A H17-Turbo (sailed by a great sailor) is a multiple winner (corrected time) of the RTI due to fact that the race can (but not always) involve a good bit of reaching.

I hope to be at Sea Buoy in May, so maybe I will know better after that.

Matt McDonald, at Vectorworks, has been very helpful. Easy to talk to, accessible etc. None of the beach cats are really what you would call cheap, so I like the idea of the factory being close at hand if I have a problem.

You might want to get in touch with Matt:
mmcdonald@vectorworksmarine.com

Any input from the F18ers out there?

Oh boy...watch this wreck.

PTP - F16 is a box rule like F18 and it came on the US scene maybe a little earlier but about the same time. It first started with an influx of Tiapan 4.9 boats which are still very competitive F16s. It's an interesting class of boats really. As it pertains to F18, the F16 (although some will pronounce to the contrary) is a little more crew-weight sensitive. I believe that they do have it in their rules that you can single hand your boat one-up with double handed boats and be scored equally - their system seems to work pretty well (similar to the big and small F18 sail plans). They are certainly fast boats for a 16 footer. They are considerably lighter than F18 (especially that 6.0). The drawbacks at the moment are that there is not as large a fleet of F16s around here in the US. Matt builds a great looking Blade (an F16 compliant boat) and there is a growing fleet of them popping up.

remember to insist on the discount for the midgets that are needed to crew on them! :P

Is it possible to modify a Hobie 16 or Prindle 16 to meet F16 class rules?

I would think an older H16 without the comp tip could be competitive if fitted with a square top main and a spinnaker. While the platform may be a little heavier than some of the latest F16 designs, the longevity of H16s is hard to argue with. The low volume of the front of a Hobie 16 hull could be described as "wave piercing" - quite like the Blade F16 et al.

Some may argue that the more recent F16 hull designs will have a performance advantage due to lower boat weight - but the Hobie 16 when sailed in the 4th mode can clearly be seen to be planing which will overcome it's mass disdvantage.

Chris.

What do you mean? I am 6' 2
Is it that difficult to get under the boom on an F16?

its an ongoing joke man.

kinda like "Hey man, cool boat! I can't even see the servos!"

Guys:

As the before post said. A Hobie 17(I have one with a Pentex squaretop and Pentex 190 sq ft reacher) is deadly on Portsmouth. I can take out one or two adults and have a ball. It is also fun alone. Easy to move on beachwheels. In wind above 15 it flies.

Just my opinion.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2
www.tcdyc.com

Now go find some petrol to throw onto that bonfire you just lit

F18 = 180kg min boat weight. ( have no problem moving my Tiger about but some people bitch about it). F18 is the fastest growing cat class in the world and is a ton of fun. I was sailing my Tiger for a while single handed last Saturday and had no dramas. Went like stink and felt very lively. Dunno about righting it solo. If you can get a TheMightyHobie18 upright then the Tiger/F18 should be similar.

IMHO the best thing the F16 has going for it is light weight (104/107KG). Watching the locals learning the f16, they seem to be breaking all the same things that the F18 guys have broken in the learning phase. When buying them new (here at least) there is not much difference in cost.

Michael

I bought an F16 (Stealth) last year for the following reasons:

1) I wanted a boat that could be sailed 1 or 2 up with equal ease
2) I wanted a boat that my wife or any of my kids could easily crew and still stay competitive ( my kids range from a 5 stone 12 yr old to 6' 2", 12 stone 19 yr old)
3) It had to be light
4) It had to be easily righted from a capsize solo ( and I only weigh 10 stone)
5) It needed to be quick as I don't do boring
6) I wanted a boat with a spinnaker
7) It needed to be strong as I don't have the time to be constantly fettling and maintaining it

Gradually my criteria above weeded out many really good boats, Tiger, Capricorn, Spitfire, Shadow, A Class, FX1 etc. and I settled on the F16. It's not ideal but it's as near to right as I think I can get.

One season on and I'm having a ball!

All of my kids and my wife have crewed at various times and want to crew again. I've taken quite a few fellow club members out for a blast and the boat has generated a lot of interest. My eldest son crewed at the inaugral UK Nationals and we won in varying conditions proving the ablity of the boat to carry weight well in the light stuff as well as a blow.

My youngest crewed for a club cup distance race in 20knots plus and we won, beating everyone (inc 2 F18's) on actual and corrected time. The boat is so 'adjustable' to conditions and crew weights.

I've raced the Stealth solo this winter and over the seies have put in some good performances against Hurricane SXs, Spitfires, Shadow, FX1, Darts etc. and finished 3rd OA. We even raced one day in a steady 22 knots gusting to 35 and I finished first on actual, second on corrected (beaten by a pesky Dart 15). The F16 is competitive in uni or sloop mode and is no more fragile than any other boat.

The only two breakages I've had all year were both the result of underwater collisions - one took out a rudder and the other ripped a centreboard out through the bottom of the hull . Both incidents could have happened to any boat.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - after more than 30 years of sailing all types of catamarans and dinghies, I've once again found a huge entusiasm for sailing a particular boat and more FUN than I can ever remember having!

All the foregoing having been said, an F16 is not the right boat for everyone. You need to look at your own criteria, pattern of use, home waters etc. AND THEN MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE.

F18s can be righted solo given enough wind (12k+). I single hand mine occasinally but I do usually carry a righting bag just in case. The boat behaves so differently with so little weight on it - it's quite a thrill. I have righted it twice solo and twice with the crew still on the high hull (their weight initially works against the righting effort up there). I weight 175lbs.

On the whole "size matters" thing; I crewed on a Blade F16 and had no trouble getting under the boom, I think it is about the same height off the tramp as any F18, Hobie 18 or Inter 20. I'm 5'9, not 6'4". Anyone over 6' is going to have trouble getting under any boom if crewing and up close to the mast.

The big advantage to the F16 is indeed the light weight, not just of the boat, but also of the mast when it comes time to step it. The other advantage is you can race it solo if you can't get crew or the wind is light or what ever. To race the F18 you MUST have crew, it's in their rules, and it is nearly as heavy as the N6.0 and Inter 20, If you are not going to race, you can sail them all solo, of course.

There are some fairly detailed length limitations on the sail area and cut lengths. I am not sure how the H16/P16 masts would fit into this measurement system, as I do not know their measurements/lengths. It may require a completely new rig (which bites, see N5.5 SL converting to N5.5 Uni). Check out http://www.formula16.org/ for the complete set of F16 rules.

Competitiveness would probably all depend on the sailing conditions, but given equal sailors with equal opportunities/upwind/downwind/reaching legs - I'd put my money on a full up F16 compliant boat that was designed from the ground up (Blade, Stealth, Taipan F16).