Because handicap racing stinks.

and why would you want to be put on a starting line with a bunch of boats that you don't want to race against.

well, it is here to stay for good or bad. Everytime a new boat comes out it pushes things more and more into handicap racing
UNLESS you get Bill Gates rich and buy everyone the same boat.

I'm pretty focused on learning and trying to do as well as I can in racing. At the risk of sounding picky, mixing us up with other boats with different capabilities is frustrating if I'm trying to figure out how to get ahead of the F18 in front of me. For instance, a uni-rig Nacra F17 can point considerably higher than us and keep going. An I20 throws a hell of a wind shadow and can still point very well and go faster. If these boats are in our fleet, it becomes a large variable that we have to contend with. If I go for a pin-end start in an F18 fleet and hit the line well and clear on starboard, I'm golden (assuming it was the right decision). If I do the same thing with an I20 40 feet to my right on the line, he's going to walk me down soon and kill me with his wind shadow forcing me to make manuevers that I wouldn't make in an F18 only start. They're also capable of different things on the start line that have to be contended with and slower boats can also be a large variable. Some might say that it is simply something that, as a good sailor, I should be able to contend with. However, it doesn't really help me achieve my goal to do better at major one-design events.

Incidental traffic on the course is a little different and there is more time an opportunity to strategize around. However, if they're in our start, not only do I have to look for the F18 I'm targeting to go after or avoid, I now have to try not to get tangled up in a boat that can clobber me or get in our way. I would certainly rather deal with it when I have to than not race at all - but I don't have to like it.

Thanks Jake.

I've been away along time, but the nightmare returns! Screwing up the start on a H17 and getting trapped below a bunch of H16s.

Point taken!

I think the one-design vs. handicap issue stems mostly from personal preference and fleet demographics.

One-design racing is a different game than handicap racing. Handicap racing is all about strategy (getting around the course fast) whereas one-design is more tactical. There are essential tactics in one-design racing (such as covering) that are suicide in handicap racing. Some people prefer the one-design game, others like the handicap game better.

Then there are the fleet characteristics to consider. I race an Isotope, and the Isotope class is pretty much local to two clubs in one area. I get the biggest possible one-design fleet in my local club races. Therefore, it doesn't make much sense to travel hundreds of miles for one-design racing. Why drive 5 hours to race against 4 other boats when I could drive 1 hour and race against 12 (including 3 of those 4)? I go to Spring Fever to sail with a broader group of boats from multiple classes.

But (correct me if I'm wrong folks), the F18 fleet has very different demographics. Those boats are spread out across multiple clubs in different areas. They don't get regular one-design racing at home. The only way to get a sizable fleet is to travel to popular regattas such as Spring Fever. When there, F18 sailors really want to capitalize on the opportunity for one-design racing. After all, that's what the F18 class was created for.

So, I don't think you'll ever have a single solution that will make everyone happy. There's nothing that prevents you from doing a little of both, though. I've asked Race Committe in the past (and will probably ask again this year) to at least start the Isotopes with the Hobie 17s and 18s (which have relatively close portsmouth handicaps) and any other similarly inclined racers. I would have no objection whatsoever if the F18 fleet asked for their own start in order to race strictly one-design. I hope that if 3 Tornados show up that RC will find a way to let them sail with I20s and Supercats, and for the Waves to sail with the Nacra 4.2s. I don't have a good feel for what the Hobie 16 sailors will want, but why not ask them?

Sincerely,
Eric

Amen.

But that was a good analysis, Eric.

I do see an opportunity for additional handicap racing at events like Spring Fever and I support that as long as the opportunity for one design racing doesn't evaporate.

The F18 fleet is building such that we usually have opportunities to race anywhere from 5 to 12 boats locally but draw up to 30 at events like Spring Fever. I first experienced a nearly 40 boat fleet at the last F18 North Americans and it was quite an awesome deal.

And the Americans are still wondering why catamaran racing is so much bigger in Europe !

Same story all over again, as soon as a class in the US gets more then 5 boats at an event they immediatly try to push all others out off their start and course. Hoping that this will both grow their individual class and lead to more competitive racing.

Wouter

Wouter,
Isn't the Formula 18 the biggest class in Europe right now? Do open classes start with the F18?

I'm just curious, because I'm not there and I don't know how regattas are done over there. It just seems to me that people naturally gravitate to one-design racing, and I include Formula racing in that.

It never ceases to amaze me how you can take any opportunity to prove to the rest of the catsailing world, just how big a richard you can be vooter.

Weren't you the one trying to "rally the troops" for an 5 boat F16 fleet at tradewinds so they wouldn't have to sail open, and therefore, short courses? A bit hypocritical if you ask me.

Ahhh, but the real question is :

Would "our beloved Vooter" still have rallyed the troops as hard for a F16 class at tradewinds IF it had been run as a large open class regatta !

I couldn't care less about the seperate F16 start, sailing the long course was what we were after. Gladly would have shared it with all and any other boats.

Wouter

if your motives were true, it wouldn't have mattered if it was run as a large open class or not.

There WAS an open class. If you're so excited about handicap, open class racing, then you should have lobbied the F16's to promote that end. Especially with your F16 gift rating!

For example the three largest events in Holland are run as single start - open class events. Indeed this means that 50 F18's share a start-line with for example 50+ other boats/designs.

Both the spring and autum cup series (4 sundays of racing in april and another 4 in october) are run in the open format.

We have about 22 regatta's of size here in the Netherlands. Of these only 3 or 4 run a seperate start for F18's. About 2 or 3 run them also for other classes that turn in at least 10 boats.

The largest regatta's are all open class/single start/single course regatta's. In some instances the small slower boats have their own scoring fleet but both fleets are open class for all boats put in them.


All the largest events are open format :

Texel : Over 500 boats
Rondje Tiengemeente : between 175 - 200 boats (depending on year)
Rem-race : 100+ boats
Jazz and Sail: about 70-80 boats if I remember correctly
Hoek van Holland - Scheveningen :

Etc

All the events that make up the NFB ranking (our national association where all cat classes and clubs are part of) are open class as well.

It is rare to see multiple courses/multiple starts. And if you see them then it is because the group of slow handicap boats are large enough to have their own racing. This typically means that about 20 to 50 boats fall in the category of having a Texel handicap of 110 and slower. All the boats faster then 110 (this includes all the spi baots) are then grouped together with their own scoring listing. In several cases the two fleets start together and race the same courses and are just seperated in the scoring.

I've been telling you all this for years now. Each springtime I get the same questions and dutifully I supply this info.

Wouter






Wouter