I am currently in the process of painting my old Mossie. Question is - What to paint it with? It appears to have 2 pack sides and it had sunburnt varnished decks.
The decks will be painted instead of varnished this time. Should I use 2 pack all over it? and if so do any of you spray the stuff. The paint website (International) says it can't be sprayed, but the stuff that is on the boat now is definately sprayed on.
Hi Trevor, I have just about finished painting a Mossie. Its been a long slow haul. I have lots of advice, probably to much to put in here, feel free to give me a call on [h] 02 6258 9481 or [w] 02 6275 4950.
Paul Wiggins Canberra
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69373 03/19/0606:14 AM03/19/0606:14 AM
2 pack epoxy is definitely the way to go and yes you can spray it once it is thinned down properly. I sprayed my hulls with International paints last time around with no problems or issues.
It is important to get the hulls back to bare timber so that the new coating system can bond properly. You may have to give the decks some additional care since they were varnished. Any good yacht chandler should be able to advise you on any special treatment.
Once you get the hulls back to bare timber give them a couple of brushed coats of International 2 pack Everdure Primer and sealer. It will sink straight into the timber and provide a hard surface that is resistant to cracking particularly in the areas of most traffic. It is absorbed so well you won't even see any brush marks.
I had a whole stack of info on the Mozzie website regarding painting hulls. If someone still has access to it and can put the info on this website that would help you greatly.
Here is that thread about painting from the old forum:
Quote
Wayne Wildenburg 12/5/05 G'day all, I am in the process of stripping back 2 glass hulls for repainting and was wondering if any of you gurus had any thoughts on which primer and paint was a good combination.
The Decks are ply.
I was hoping to use a filler primer combination to fill any sanding marks or wood grain that are left over after orbital sanding, as I would like to give the hulls that nice gelcoat smoothness, without any real increase in weight (the hulls alone are min weight). Any feedback would be appreciated.
Peter Cobden 18/5/05 Wayne, Getting information about repainting a fiberglass boat you would be best talking to Jim Boyer at Boyer Fibrecraft in Bendigo his number is 03 54477700. You may find that Jim built the boat in the first place. It would also be a good idea to weigh each hull as you work on them. If you can keep the maximum weight for one bare hull under 20.5kgs you should make the minimum 55kgs platform weight.
Peter Foulsum 18/5/05 Wayne, STOP !!! Don't take to it with an orbital sander !! It's too destructive and your Mossie deserves better. I have a timber Mossie so I can't help with the fibreglass areas but for the timber decks purchase an industrial strength paint stripper and apply in short sections and strip back. When the applied section has bubbled up and soft strip the paint off. Don't wait for it to go hard. It won't come off easily once dry. Go over areas that haven't lifted again. When complete use a medium grade sanding paper and cork block and clean up the decks by hand. Your Mossie deserves care and patience. Don't sand too hard or you may go through to the next level of ply. You don't know how many repaint jobs it's had already.
When you are happy with the surface wipe off all sanding dust and apply a good 2 pack surface primer by brush. I use International Everdure available from most yacht fitting suppliers. This is a thin epoxy and sinks into the bare timber filling all micro cracks and provides a very strong base to paint over the top of. So far it has prevented any re-cracking of high wear areas that were previously an issue. I was able to apply a second coat immediately after finishing the 1st coat. The primer is so thin it soaks into the timber like a sponge.
When you have applied enough coats (see the manufacturers instructions) then fill any dents or grooves with 2 pack filler and sand back smooth (I assume you are going to paint the decks rather than varnish).
Apply undercoats then top coats all from the same manufacturer with a spray gun. I use a hand held electric gun with a professional paint spraying tip with good results.
Don't forget to mask off areas you don't want overspray on. Don't be stingy with the masking tape either. Use a top product for a proper job. It's really disappointing to spoil the paint job because you used any old masking tape and the paint seeped underneath it. For a great paint finish remember it 90% preparation and 10% application.
Stephen 27/7/05 A quick question, if I used paint stripper on my wooden paper tiger, would the paint stripper affect the resin and glass tape on the seams? Cheers, Stephen
I have stripped my wooden Mozzie without any problems. The stripper is only on the surface for only a very short time. Just wait long enough for it to lift the paint adequately then scrape it off. If the resin was of good quality and set properly there shouldn't be any issues. Apart from that why are you sailing a Paper Tiger ??
Paul Wiggins 3/10/05 Hi Guys, I need to strip back the forward tops of the hulls due to cracks in the paint. From what I read above it may be best to to go back to bare timber and start from there. I would appreciate advice on the process to follow, [starting with a 2 pack surface primer.] Thanks.... Paul
Peter Foulsum 6/10/05 Paul, Please see my note above posted on 18/05/05. That pretty much describes the process and yes you do need to strip the deck back to get the best result. The 2 pack primer I used was the key to a deck that is strong and has great resistance to further cracking. Data sheets from the yacht chandler who sells the paint is also required reading prior to starting. A 2 pack paint (undercoat and top coat) is better than a single pack also because it's harder and stronger. Don't scrimp on the cost of the paint either; you don't want to repeat the process for the next season.
p.s. Don't get a deck colour that's too dark because it will expand and shrink in the sun too much and you may end up with cracking again.
Paul Wiggins 10/10/05 Guys some more help please???? How difficult is it to detach the hulls from the beams... What are the sealing requirements when putting it back together? Thanks....Paul
Peter Foulsum 10/10/05 Paul, the difficulty in getting the beams off depends on how much sealant has been applied previously. If the sealant is up to the deck on the fore and aft sides you may find it difficult. Remove the trampoline to remove any lateral tension then undo the nuts on the inside of the hulls and unscrew the bolts through the beams and set aside. There should also be load bearing packers on the underside if it's a timber boat. They may be recessed into the timber bearers.
See if you can lift the beam from the hull. If you can't then try to separate the sealant from the fore and aft sides of the beam with a sharp knife or scraper. If that doesn't work then pry a flat scraper between the beam and the hull on the flat inboard and outboard surfaces. Use the bottom face of the beam as a guide rather than the hull to try and prevent damage to the hulls. Keep persevering until you get separation.
I used to have a hell of a time trying to separate the beams from the hulls but always used way too much sealant.
Last time I decided that you really only need the sealant (waterproof silicone in tube/gun form from the hardware store) at the bolt holes so only applied a small amount around each hole and a small line between the holes. The clamping load from the bolts, load bearing packers, washers and nyloc nuts should be enough to keep the beams from moving although you will need to check it after the first couple of outings. So far the results have been excellent with minimal leaking from the beam areas.
If the Mozzie is timber check the holes through the deck for slop or damage. If they are in poor condition you will need to fill them with 2 part epoxy filler and re-drill to suit the beam hole spacings. This will provide a stronger and more rigid locking mechanism which further helps to prevent leaking. If you do this be careful that you set up the yacht square by using a measuring tape diagonally from bow to stern.
Paul Wiggins 31/10/05 Well, removal of the hulls was a bit difficult, but the info supplied above made the job much easier. Thanks.
After a few long days both hulls are now stripped of paint and back to bare timber. From the look of the ply there was never a clear sealer applied as after the removal of the undercoat I seem to be back to 'natural' ply.
Some faint smudges of undercoat remain on the ply but I am hesitant to sand these for fear of damage to the ply. There are also some patches on the glass tape on the bow and stern.
My question: Is it OK to apply the Everdure [2 pack epoxy] over this?
Peter Foulsum 2/11/05 Paul, Well done ! It looks like you've done all the hard work.
I remember asking myself the same question with the smudges. The only way you'll know is if you apply a small amount of sealer over the existing patches and see what happens. Just use a couple of plastic bottle caps as measuring meters to mix a small quantity. Apply to the affected area and wait and see. The primer sinks into the timber very quickly and should be touch dry in about 30 minutes on a cool day. You should see very quickly whether you will have a problem with the residue undercoat.
I didn't have any problems with my Mozzie but it your previous paint system may have been quite different.
Thanks for your replies, particularly the orbital sander - I was going to attack the decks with that very beast!
I have decided to go with the NorGlass system (Aussie company and a helpful rep in Melbourne). I can spray on both the undercoat and top coat for a nice finish. Paint stripper will sort out the small patches of original varnish that remain on the decks and epoxy filler for the nasty bits.
If any one is interested I might put up some progress pics.
I have printed the entry form for the Sauna Sale in June and stuck it on the fridge as a 'dangled carrot' to get the boat finished...
Thanks all and see you on the water.
Mozzie 1828 ' ' Sugarloaf Sailing Club Melbourne
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69376 03/21/0604:59 AM03/21/0604:59 AM
To strip the paint from the boat use a good quality stripper and most importantly a good quality scraper. The standard scraper [flexible stainless steel with a wooden handle is OK but has to be pushed and can easily dig in to the timber. Each of these blemished then need attention at some later stage.
The scraper I ended up using has a long stiff handle with a small right angle at the end holding a tungsten blade which was pulled along the surface and also easy to control the downward pressure. About $40.00 but worth every cent.
If the boat has good lines avoid removing the epoxy filler used for fairing as you will have to 'replace' it later on and this adds lots of work. It is only the paint [undercoat and topcoat and primer] that needs to be removed.
You will then need to sand the hull smooth, avoid removing to much [any] timber. If you are going to use an electric sander get a good quality random orbital sander but take it easy. I would not use it to remove the paint though.
As a previous post has indicated the next step is the sealer, I used multiple coats of the 2 pack Everdure, keep applying till you get a smooth glossy finish.
Then fill and fair any dints, scratches with epoxy putty. Spend some time on this as any imperfections will show thru on the final job.
A spray on primer filler can now be applied [I wish I had done this step] and sanded for smooth lines on the boat. Then its a couple of undercoats then about three topcoats.
As for the final coat, even with my non-existent spraying skills the sprayed finish of reaction lacquer was streets ahead of the brush finish of the new 'Perfection' brush on.
I contacted the manufacturer on this for advice. They do not recommend spraying as the paint is slower drying than the reaction lacquer [now discontinued] and will not 'flash' dry [which allows multiple coats on the fly]. They indicated if sprayed it would result in runs and sags. I would not consider using 'Perfection' again.
All in all a fairly big job, but if done properly will result in a great looking boat.
I guess the main points are: 1. Use a quality scrapper 2. Don't remove to much of the epoxy filler 3. Spend time on carefully filling all scrathes and dents. 4. Spray the paints wherever possible. 5. Enjoy the experience!!
Paul Wiggins Canberra
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69377 03/21/0606:12 AM03/21/0606:12 AM
I can highly reccomend Norglass that is what was used on "Altered", it was recommended to me by Tim Heaney ex mossie sailor pro wooden boatbuilder who sprayed it for me, a truly beautiful finish, your not allowed to use Botany Blue though . In fact Tim H is about to use Norglass on the Sabre dinghy he is building, it was also used on his timber Mossie "Merlin" I think.
I have used Epoxy resin brushed on to ply to seal it in the past, takes some sanding afterwards though to get it ready for sprayed epoxy undercoat. Everdure sounds like it could be better.
Unfortunately, one of the Queens royal duties while she was here, was to allow me to use that very colour! At the time, I was not aware (and I don't think She was either) that there was another Botany Blue Mossie out there... MI 6 will be looking into this me thinks.
When I finally get my finger from where it appears to be and onto the digicam button, I will post some pics of my oxidised botany blue and once Varnished Mozzie!
I ripped out and got me a TCT blade pull scraper last night($18 @ Bunnings) and does that bad boy get the job done! It is a definate must have for the workshop. [color:"blue"] [/color]
And by the way - my boat was Botany Blue before yours, sail no. 321 - I might call it 'Methuselah'!
Cheers All
Mozzie 1828 ' ' Sugarloaf Sailing Club Melbourne
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69380 03/27/0605:54 AM03/27/0605:54 AM
So here are some pictures of the as yet un-named mozzie. I have mainly shown the deck as it is the worst of it. Varnish coverage is down around 20% - The rest is bare timber. The hull colour is good with barely a mark on it, apart from a dirty great chunk out of the Starboard bow (Laser gunwhales are mighty tough things ) that I did at the Yarrawonga Regatta a few years back.
More soon...
Cheers
Mozzie 1828 ' ' Sugarloaf Sailing Club Melbourne
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69381 03/27/0605:56 AM03/27/0605:56 AM
Those photos are a familiar site, having just gone through the same process on my boat. As a suggestion, since the decks are going back to bare timber give consideration to using a layer of light 2 oz fibreglass cloth between the epoxy coats. I was advised to do this on my decks, and the result is a very stiff frame with minimal extra weight (2oz/sq metre). The timber is more resistant to damage, and the finish very uniform. Attached photo shows cloth being laid over wet epoxy. Happy to provide more detail if you wish.
Probably a very worthwhile idea and I thought about doing it to the fore decks as they are reasonably light and flexible given the elbows and bums that are put on them. However - given the trouble I had re doing the glass on my foils a few years back, I am very reluctant. Getting the epoxy on smoothly was a nightmare, and it took about 10 sanding/epoxy attempts before the surface was flat enough and with no fibres poking through to be able to fill and paint. Timber I can do - Epoxy frustrates the hell out of me
Anyways - What was left of the varnish is all but gone and the hulls are looking ready to prime then fill. What I need now of course, is a nice fine Melbourne day with zero wind to start the spraying. I havent yet warned the GF that the grass will be white and blue for a while
Finally... Melbourne has given me a still day ! ANZAC day was deemed to be still enough to spray paint onto the ever-waiting Mozz. My GF decided that it would be funny to dress me in some paper overalls and take some pics while I got the job done. As soon as I get over the embarassment I will post one or two!
The primer/undercoat sure highlights imperfections, so its over to the filler, and then a wait again for another 'spray day'.
Mozzie 1828 ' ' Sugarloaf Sailing Club Melbourne
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69385 04/27/0603:51 AM04/27/0603:51 AM
Looks completely normal to me . Must be a real pain keeping the bugs away . Not many warm/sunny/still days left to complete the task. Don't you have someone who can lend you a garage ?
I actually have both a 3 side enclosed carport and a garage! Unfortunately, the Garage is so full of 'stuff' that it is a big job just protecting everything from overspray. The carport is where my ever-loving parks her car ('don't get paint on anything!')
Having said this - If it gets down to it - I will be using one of them just to get the job done!
Mozzie 1828 ' ' Sugarloaf Sailing Club Melbourne
Re: Painting a timber Mossie
[Re: Trevor]
#69389 05/16/0605:52 AM05/16/0605:52 AM
It has been rather quiet, I have again been stopped by the weather. This time it has been too cold to lay the filler down! each night I have come home from work and it is either dark and raining or dark and too cold! The filler wont set properly under 10 degrees. Having said that I have finished 1 hull to a standard that I am happy with (as a start) and it is ready for another undercoat. If it looks OK I will then topcoat it and its done. In the mean time when I cant paint I will be filling the other hull.
I suppose I wouldnt be the first guy to be screwing fittings on just prior to a race!
I still need to get the VYC insurance and club membership... Time is running out.......
. In fact Tim H is about to use Norglass on the Sabre dinghy he is building, it was also used on his timber Mossie "Merlin" I think.
) that I did at the Yarrawonga Regatta a few years back.
. Must be a real pain keeping the bugs away 
. Not many warm/sunny/still days left to complete the task. Don't you have someone who can lend you a garage ?