Have a look at the photo's at this link
http://www.formula14.yachting.org.au

Shame the 430 has been removed from the site.

lets see it with the spinnaker set up berny (F14 not just 14) and it will have a permanent showing

Yeah but there are pics of the AO there before it was F14 and what about all the pics of the retro's.
If the site was truly F14, you'd reasonably expect to see a good cross section of what's about. Presently, we'd have to be excused for thinking it was the OA site.

Every photo on there Berny is F14! Every cat shown there was set up with, and sailed with spinnaker and every one conformed to within the F14 box rule (even in one case before the box rule was finalised), but the most important thing though Berny is that we have written permission from the owners of those photos allowing us to use them. There have been some other shots IE of a Hobie 14 with kite and of your 430, which haven't been true" F14 within the "box rule" of the F14 association, and those shots were "lifted" from the internet (which makes us a little nervous when it comes to "copyright" etc), we are only too pleased to show any F14 cat (whether "new" or “retro”) as long as it does not fall so far away from the Box rule F14 concept as to be in some obviously different class, AND if we have been sent those photos by their owners with their permission for us to use them. Without their owners written permission it's too tenuous to post them from our site (so we have been told, in no uncertain manner, by the site provider. So any photos that anyone would like to see posted on the F14 catamaran association site, please email them to us together with their permission for us to use them (as long as the sender is the person who has the right to give such permission)
We would love to have your photos to post.

Question; best material to make the sock from? I currently have one my best friend (wife <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) made me from light weight tarp material. I think I'd rather something with holes, some sort of mesh maybe? Tramp material (too heavy?) shade cloth? spinnaker cloth (exy)? or something else I haven't thought of? What are the spi people useing?

When choosing a material for the sock think about abrasion. When I sourced a mesh for the first sock that I made, I used some flyscreen mesh that I already had. The result was that after just 2-3 hoists/douses the spin was showing areas that had slight 'furring' and some threads pulling from seam edges.

I then found some really soft mesh that was quite slippery, in a garden supplies store - I don't know what it would normally be used for - and it has been really good.

The sock on the Stealth is made from Pentex and causes no problems at all, it's smooth and slippery inside and because of its laminated construction stays open well so that the kite doesn't 'stick' as I have seen with the softer Dacron socks.

Darryl, What is it about Berny's 430 that negates it being considered as an F14? Apart from the obvious...that it didn
't have a spinnaker. Surely if someone wanted to enter their Catamaran as an F14 it would be up to them if they chose to sail it without the spinnaker? I am under the impression Berny's 430 is like yours, a homebuilt/own design and would therefore be whatever he chooses to call it and as it is 4.3 metres long and as far as I know complies with the other restrictions in the box rule. I would have thought an email seeking his approval to use the photo(s) would have been a much less confrontational way of dealing with this issue, than removing his boat from the F14 website, especially since he seems to be one of the sailors at the forefront of getting this class off the ground in Australia. I am not intentionally taking anyones side and of course I may and probably have missed some important point but would welcome some clarification. Nick

Is that one of your AO prototypes on ebay at the moment?

There isn't any problem posting any F14 photo's on the web site, as long as we have some form of written permission from the owner of those photos allowing them to be made public on that site. The site host has informed us that we need that written conformation before we can post "other persons" material, so any photos that are sent/posted/emailed to us together with the owners permission for us to use them, we will post (unless they are absolute crap of course). We had shots of Bernys 430 posted and had to remove them because we had "lifted" them from another web site and we had no right to use them without permission from that site (as well as from Berny).
Verbal permission isn't worth the paper it's printed on in a court of law.

Nick, it ain't important old son, I was just revving Darryl up <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It really makes no difference to me one way or the other.


Link Nick?

The link is http://www.ebay.com.au, then type in alpha omega catamaran in the search for part. At present it hasn't met the reserve. The bid at the moment is $305 with 4days to run.
As for the previous post :It was a genuine enquiry, not intended to wind anyone up.Nick

No it's a good point Berny. It is also an opportunity to ask any one out there if they have any good photos of "F14" cats to post us a copy with a release from the owners for us to post them on the web site.
It would help greatly in compiling a visual recording of the growth of the F14 class.
Please post any photos to
ao14@optusnet.com.au

That AO Nick is an early 4.4 Alpha. It was built in about 1981 looking at the deck layout. This was not any "forerunner" or prototype for the Alpha F14 as although in profile you can see that they are both "from the same stable", they are completely different designs with totally different handling and sailing chartacteristics.

Got one of these;
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/davehart/Tornado/

What's the best way to fix it to the pole? I'm thinking three pop rivets (5mm) along the bottom. Sound about right?

Bern,
The mossie guys are using a swimming pool filter materials.
It is super slippery and is full of holes so it drains.
I'm told it is imported from NZ.
I think it is the best material I've seen so far.
I think Erwin Sails imports it just or this purpose.

Regards,
Phill

Well finally the spi is up and running. I sailed with it yesterday in very light conditions and so far I like it.
It's different sailing and I have a lot of things to get used to but first impressions are good and the boat seems to be fast as I expected it would considering the talent of the bloke who designed and built it ha ha. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Hoisting and lowering were a bit hit and miss. If I get it all right, it goes up and down without a hitch but there does seem to be some traps which I need to come to grips such as tangles, or not being on quite the right heading etc., which will cause it to hang up, and plus other dumb stuff like not releasing the sheet from the cleat. I pulled the eyelet out of the tramp in one of my frenzied attempts to dowse the thing before I ran out of water, (Concord) which is being fixed today. I think I need a small turning block under the tramp.

I need to sail as much as I can now to become familiar with the processes and to sort out a few minor details. If the wind isn't too strong next Satdy, (I doubt I could handle anything heavier than about 10 knots yet), and I can get some more time on the water before then, I'll go down to Woollarah and see how it goes amongst other boats, (crash and burn)?

Oh, and the 430 is probably now the fastest 14ft (4.3m) cat in the world. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Are you still under the 300sq.ft. sail area F14 rule?

Yes, the spi is not huge at 10sqm but seems to be enough sailing one up.

I sailed again today. I had a much better day coming to grips with the spinnaker. Only a light breeze around 5/8knotts probably gusting 10/12knotts but I was able to fly a hull downwind quite easily with some good depth after a couple of runs. Good fun.
A couple of problems.
Halyard has too much stretch resulting in luff sag in the gusts. Gotta get some decent rope. Recommendations?
I changed the tack line to 1:1 and it works better with less surplus on the tramp when the kite is up.

I got a strange spi sheet tangle during one deployment. It got tangled around the snuffer mouth somehow. I re-stowed and re-launched the kite and it fixed it. I need to try to figure out what happened there.
It took me an age to rig the thing. Anyone care to help with the best procedure for hooking up the halyard and retrieval lines?

Bern,
The spi sheet can tangle on the snuffer mouth unless you run a light line from the mouth to the bridle tang fitting on the hull. This blocks the spi sheet from getting around the snuffer mouth.
As far as rigging.
Some people leave it all connected and just take sails down and undo forestay and one spi pole line and put the whole lot on the trailer with even spi pole and side stays attached.
So you need the spi pole to be supported by tieing to the
fron mast support on the trailer. Spi stays in the snuffer and all lines including halyard, spi sheets etc stay in place.
May take a bit of planning to make this system work for you but it makes rigging very quick.

Regards,
Phill