Does this mean that if I were to build my own from scratch mid-pole snuffer head that it would not be considered class legal?

Taken form Nacra I20 Class Rules as listed on INCA website:
9.2a Any Snuffer is considered class legal if purchased through P.C.,
Inc. The spinnaker tack distance from the front beam must remain the same.

If yes, then would you actually inforce this rule if I show up at your regatta with my own snuffer head?

That is what it means. Nobody would probably protest you short of a national championship - but you leave yourself open to that possibility.

It's these kinds of rules that make me appreciate the openes of the F18 class. However, it is still appreciable that everyone on the course is running the same hardware with the same advantages and disadvantages.

The curse of SMOD strikes again!!!

It is interesting that the I-20s do not use the International Formula 20 rules aside from sail size. I believe it would be legal under the International Formula 20 rules to make your own snuffer system.

The Nacra Formula 18s have adopted the International Formula 18 rules for their class. I think they use them in total. Not so with the Hobie Tigers, though. We are still sailing under two sets of rules, but the snuffer head is not in question.

Later,
Dan

The Nacra (Inter) 20 floated around that whole Formula 20 concept in Europe ... my impression is that they never fully went through the threshold into Formula 20 but they kept a foot in the door (that is why the European Inter 20's have a different mainsail than the US version). The class has made a pretty big departure in the last 6 months by really pushing the class and making the availalbe Inter/Nacra 20 catamarans the same worldwide (and I think even applying for ISAF one-design status - but don't quote me on that). It seems that they've given up on the non-existant F20 class and opted to push the boat on its own.

The Nacra F18 SMOD rules did mirror the Formula 18 ruleset for a while. However, sometime last year, they were changed and made limitations such that to compete as a PC SMOD F18, you have to obviously have the PC hulls, but you would now have to have PC supplied sails, and some specific hardware. Purchase systems (particularly the jib and uphauls) are now limited where they are not under specific Formula 18 (MMOD) rules. Personally, I didn't see the need for the change as with the strength of F18, I think the manufacturers should really choose whether they support F18 or one design. They do seem to be able to find some middle ground but I believe it will be a loosing battle since people like me would have to completely reconfigure my boat and or purchase different sails in order to match the SMOD rules.

Jake:

I say let's all just do the Formula 18 thing. It is a rule set that is designed to keep the boats cheap. They do not allow to many exotic materials. There are more than 15 manufacturers that are making boats that play well together.

Like you say if we have to have a boat that is Formula 18 and another rule for class sailing then it does get into money that we should not need to spend. Right now I have to buy two spinnakers. I have the Hobie Class spinnaker which works well but does not last long. Then I buy a strong spinnaker from a sailmaker (EP or Glaser). The off brand will be my Formula sail and recreational sail. I rarely put up the Hobie spinnaker if I am sailing recreational.

There are other parts as you know, being in a similar class situation, as well.

Later,
Dan

Oink, oink......

Just kidding....maybe.

Tom:

I have no idea what you are trying to say. If it is a joke that I am not getting...

I am predicting you where thinking that I meant Formula 18 for anyone and everyone. That I know cannot happen. I was specifically talking to Jake who mostly races Formula 18 in short course racing. Maybe I should have emailed him.

Later,
Dan

I think Tshan was making some sort of play at the weight of an F18? Dunno - it was lost on me to.

I agree with you Dan. The formula is successful and I like the open market with regard to sails and hardware and the ability to have a sail matched to our sailing weight.

getting back to the snuffer hoop issue... I haven't yet seen a snuffer arrangement on any boat that was BETTER than the PC-supplied solution. The endpole and midpole snuffers for the I20 are quality, and work well right out of the box.

You need to get out more.

I can name 4 better setup already.

Wouter

I can tell that you haven't tried the new stock mid-pole snuffer on an I20. It's rough on the spinnakers and a bitch on the crew. The same setup on my F18 does work very well however - but I'm a minority...a lot of people struggle with spinnaker damage and tough hoists with that setup. I think they've missed on some geometry with the spin patches and hoop placement. The PC midpole snuffer just isn't all that good out of the box for an I20 - ask Power Dave.

The Hobie Tiger comes with a really good mid-pole snuffer and I particularly like the metal plate used to keep abrasion down from the dousing line.

I'm anxious to see what comes with the Cap - I like that Hobie hoop, too, Jake.

I thought you would have had that thing by now! So when is the baby due?

funny, here I was thinking that the I20 midpole would work just as smooth as the NF18 midpole. The endpole works fine except with a brand new crispy spin or if you try to snuff going DDW.

And wouter, I'm talking home-brew solutions here. Things like the Guck snuffer and the snailshells don't count.

AND I NEED TO GET OUT MORE!??!?! HOLY CRAP HELLO POT!

Humm funny, neither the Guck snuffer or the Snail by Marstrom was part of my listing of better snuffer systems.

Actually, both of them aren't considered to be very good snuffers themselfs.


And what do you exactly mean by :"I'm talking home-brew solutions here"

That the stock I-20 snuffer as supplied by PC is "home-brew" ?

That the stock I-20 snuffer as supplied by PC can only be compared to "home-brew" systems ?

That the quality of the I20 snuffer as supplied by PC is such that it is only fair that it is rated with "home-brew" system instead of other professionally supplied system.

Entlighten me. I'm a little confused here.

Wouter

you're confused because you're a cheese-eating-surrender-monkey. (or in close proximity to one)

1) Chris said that he wanted to make his own snuffer system
2) I said that the PC system not only is class legal, but works the same or better than any homebrew system I've come across.
3) home-brew consists of something that you, as the boat owner, construct out of pure raw materials.

Piss off would you?

I tend to be an annoying stickler when it comes to rules. The way I read it is that if you purchase it from Performance Catamarans, it is class legal. But it does not say that ONLY snuffers purchased from P.C. are class legal.

The last sentence about tack distance from the front beam is the only "MUST" in that rule.

It's sort of like the Wave Class Association rules say that any Wave sail made by Hobie Cat Company is considered class legal. But that doesn't mean that people cannot buy sails from wherever they want, as long as they measure in.

Hey...you're right. I bet the wording mysteriously changes soon.