Beachcats don't have much freeboard, so they don't weathervane as easily. This isn't so much an issue as keeping the mast and rigging solid so they don't bang around.

As far as mooring larger boats, I would rather do that than put them into a slip where they get beat up by the dock.

Thanks Capt Dave, I have been googling gelcoat to try to understand the issues, and your synopsis help immensly. Can you share some of the specific deadends that you took, and we can watch out for?

As to dead hulls, in particular, I have understood that delam is due to water in the core, and have been glad to think that regluing is a good solution, and leaving open to dry out. Now it sounds like you are saying that if there is moisture in the hull, and delam is occurring, that it is already too late. That does not sound good to me. At what point is to much water, too much, beyond repair?

When I got my Cat, there was water standing in the hull after it had been parked for a long time. I have thought that was due to condensation, and possible drainage down the tubes, since the boat was not covered. Apparently this water had been in there for quite awhile, and I would suspect that it definitly would have absorbed into the foam core. The hulls themselves do not seem to be soft, though the decks were.

Recently, having installed the ports, and glued the soft spost, I found water, 1 inch standing in the hulls after they had been closed up. I opened them up and they dried overnite, so I have to believe that with ventilation there is significant drying going on. So now you have me wondering, and hoping that it is not as bad as you say.

I did these procedures figuring that I could not damage the hulls any more than they were already damaged, and I would expect that I could still use them, so the question I have basically, is what is the prognosis. What is the downside of continuing to use the hulls if water has penetrated the fiberglass and the foam? Are they just heavier and not as responsive as nice dry new hulls, well I don't expect to do much racing? Should I expect to be out sailing one day and see the hulls melt under me and descend into Davie Jones Locker? TnT

Tinkertom,

I believe you are confusing delamination and water penetration - they are separate problems altogether.

Although water penetration can certainly lead to delamination, it is incorrect to assume delamination is always associated with water penetration, because it usually is not. Also, the reverse is not generally true either - delamination does not lead to water penetration (with rare exceptions).

Most delamination comes from local stresses between the glass laminate and the core - thus creating a separation between the two. As for water penetration, I believe my prior writings explain this quite thoroughly so I will not go into it again. What I will say is, water penetration is a much, much more serious issue and can certainly destroy a vessel`s hull by making it too costly to repair. This is especially true when the core has been absorbing the water (not just the glass laminate). Note: water in the laminate is often described as Osmosis. Though this term better decribes the chemical nature of the actual process, it can be confusing to some.

Delamination is relatively easy to fix with the epoxy injection method you have referred to. On the other hand, water penetration of the core can be a damn nightmare to fix - or practically impossible. In the latter case, the affected parts of the core MUST be exposed by cutting away the laminate (fiberglass) and a very extensive drying process must then be used. Shortcuts in this process can be very punitive. If large areas of the core are water-logged, just imagine how much of the boat you would have to cut away to allow proper drying. In the case of a Hobie hull, this can easily mean it is time for the scrap heap.

Do not assume that the water settling in your hull has anything to do with delamination or water penetration - it is most likely completely unrelated. Water could probably sit there for years and cause little damage as long as it doesn`t freeze. Let me repeat myself; the presence of that water is NOT DIAGNOSTIC for either problem. It is diagnostic for condensation, or more likely a leak. So, find the source of your leak and fix it. In the meantime, it is always a good idea to keep your bilge fairly dry.

As I previously wrote, there are immense differences in the relative time it takes for SOME boats to allow water penetration (of the core or laminate). As for how much water penetration is bad, the answer is simple - any penetration, at all, is very bad and is a problem in evolution. Meaning...it will go from bad to worse in EVERY single case. Time is of the essense here, as well as deep pockets. And remember, unless you cut open specific areas of your boat, you will NEVER see water penetration of your core until it is probably too late. Even after cutting, early stage water penetration of the core may actually feel dry to the touch and a moisture meter may be required to detect it. You can, however, see Osmosis (blistering) of the laminate if you know what to look for.

Water penetration left unfixed will progress at varying rates which are unpredictable. Ultimately, it will destroy the hull. You may get rampant delamination - both between the core and laminate and within the glass laminate itself. You may see core swelling and subsequent splitting open of the hull as well as and generalized breakdown of the laminate altogether.

Are you getting a sense of just how tricky this problem is to detect and fix? Half the battle is not mis-understanding it in the first place, so don`t feel bad. Water penetration is the unseen killer of fiberglass boats and the only thing that really worries me as a large boat owner (I don`t live in the Hurricane zone). But, let me qualify this by stating; HOBIE OWNERS NEED NOT WORRY as this is a problem that generally affects boat kept in the water. This topic has surfaced here in direct response to the issue of mooring a Hobie. So, don`t start losing sleep and calling the marine surveyor yet.

As for my personal screw-ups... I started fiberglass fabrication in earnest more than 10 years ago. With hundreds of wasted hours and thousands of wasted dollars, my only solace is in calling it the "cost of my education". Chemical contaminations of gelcoat, resin quality, poor catalyst mixing, and ambient temp/humidity problems were my main "hard lessons". I have lost several molds and ruined many finishes because of these. Thankfully, my projects were small scale.


Dave

Thanks Dave, I will sleep better tonight!!!

I Just finished reading the thread about restoring your rig. Nice work, and it certainly looks like you know of which you speak.

As for myself, I by nature am not as much a purist, but what I call a practical engineer, a tinker, basically a hack! I look for things to be functional, but the world is a better place with your artistic flare. It is just that I would worry about running that hull up on a rocky shore, and getting a big scratch.

So as you learn to sail, know that I am out there crashing around, learning to sail as well. If you see this butt uggly Hobie Cat headed your way, be sure and say hi! TnT

Tinkertom,

Glad to hear you can relax a bit - that IS important.

Unfortunately for me, I too am one of those "oh my god, a scratch" type of guys. But I prefer to think of myself as a "spit and polish" guy instead. I have found that this type of self-delusion keeps me out of therapy and sounds a lot better than obsessive-compulsive...or worse - anal. I leave those terms to my closest friends, siblings and wife.

...What`s a guy to do?


Dave

"...What`s a guy to do?"

That's why we go sailing! or tinkering! TnT

First I'll second everything Dave said about the gel coat etc.

About anchoring. I do a lot of it. I carry an anchor with me all the time. IMO the Fortress or the slightly less expensive Guardian is the best because of how light they are. Also with a ( I think it's 7/16 wrench) you can take it apart quickly. I use a # 7 fortress but the # 5 guardian would work. As to storing it, I have a 20' ft boat so I have a little more room on my tramp. I also have a tramp bag for all the stuff I carry. I store mine under this bag. The best way to anchor is to make a bridle of similar dimensions to the one that attaches the forestay to the hulls. 3/16 pre stretched line works good. Find the center of that line and tie a overhand knot so you create a 3-4 inch loop. To that loop I tie another line (about 25' works good around here) and the other end gets tied to the anchor. The ends of the anchor bridle get tied to the bridle attachment points at the hull. On my boat I have replaced the pins that hold the bridles at the hulls with shackles. This gives me a place to tie the anchor bridle to. On a 16 I think you have a place to tie off to already.

I have a furler so with my jib rolled I center my traveler, lightly snug my main and the boat will sit nicely. On the 16 you almost have to drop the jib to get it to behave at anchor. If your worried about the wave action working the loose rig all you have to do is take a line and tie it to your trap wires on one side and tie the other end to your shroud chain plate. This should keep the rig from slamming around. Having said that I don't leave my boat moored. I will anchor it overnight while camping.

Of course this all depends are where you sail and how deep the water is. We have fairly shallow water around here with sand bottom and no surf to deal with so what I suggested works good here.

Some good points about having an anchor on board. Depending on where you sail once the boat goes in the water you don't have to drag it up on the beach wearing the hulls, If you capsize, anchoring will hold the bows into the wind which should make it easier to right. It can also keep you from drifting into things while capsized like docks, rocks, pilings,etc.

Hope this helps, Any ?'s please ask. I can post some PIC'S of my set up if you like.

Attachment; my boat at anchor.

Here's some other pevious talk about anchoring.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...amp;Main=17771&Search=true#Post17771

Whisk at anchor, Frenchy's Cove, Anacapa Island, Channel Islands National Park, September, 2001.

Fortress FX7, 200' of 1/4" rode, bridle on bows, wind 10 knots, later became 20 knots, waves 2' that later became 3',
current approximately 1.5 knots, depth approximately 35', distance from shore approximately 100 yards.
(10-15 minute swim against a cross current, whew!)

Anchoring by Alan Thompson, the king of catamaran anchoring.

Gary, is that where you anchored it or is that where it wound up?

Yes!

Good answer!

Anchoring Tests results.

This great anchoring advice guys but Catman we got to talk about the telltales on that main. How do you read those, in gusts over 50mph......

When it's blowing like that......... I don't look up.