No ! The nacra is noticeably better here. The lip on the side of the Hobie hulls really do slow it down when it has to punch through waves. The more narrow and rounder deck on the bows also allow the nacra to put its bows under and continue sailing.




Nonsense. Again they make a big deal out of really nothing. In my experience standard length tie-downs (with the ratchet tensioners), costing 3 bucks a piece, are long enough to wrap around the hull of the nacra 5.0 and thus tie it down to the trailer. But I know alot of people just do the wrap around the beams themself and that seems to work very well also and has the advantage of not touching the hulls.




No.





My vote goes to the nacra 5.0 unless you want to tap into the H16 racing cirquit.

Wouter

I am pretty new to cat-sailing, actually to sailing as such, started last year - on a NACRA 5.0. The Baltic sea (northern Germany) is my sailing area, and the boat did remarkably well under all conditions, low winds as well up to 7 bft with appropriate waves (by accident ...). Contrary to the Hobie 16 the NACRA is very easy to control - and it tacks without drama! This boat provided so much fun that my girl-friend and me won the prize of our club for the most frequent sailors last year.
I had the opportunity to sail a Hobie 16 last year, too, it is still the most widely distributed boat to rent. I never felt as safe as on the NACRA, these outdated banana-shaped hulls make the boat very unpredictable (at least to me...) if it gets rough.
Obviously the sense of "the beauty of a boat" differ here in Europe from the US. These banana-shaped design are regarded as outdated over here, and you see less and less of them. For good reason Hobie Europe is manufacturing the new designs of Fox, Tiger, and FX One. The Hobie 16 is still available (through import, I guess), but you have to prepared to loose money if you try to sell it again.
At my club with approx. 30 privately owned boats, we still have one each of Hobie 16, 17, and 18 left, but there are 4x Dart 18s, 3x NACRA 5.0 / 500, and 3 NACRA Inter 17 / F17 - just to mention the smaller/ beginner boats.
To cut a long story short: as long as you don't plan to participate regularly in racing in a single class, I see no reason to sail a Hobie 16. The NACRA will provide more fun (for one as well as for two sailors), it's easier to control, and will go in the majority of conditions faster.

The early Nacras were solid glass, with longitudinal stringers, but that construction was phased out around 1984. Wouter is pretty spot-on about everything here; I learned to sail cats on an H16, but when it came time to buy my first, it was a Nacra 5.O. Lots of times I wish I still had it, for its simplicity, shallow draft, weight capacity, and just plain sheer fun. It'll float a lot of weight - I had mine over 20 mph (yeah, thru the water) triplehanded with an estimated 550 lbs on board. The 5.O (and ANY Nacra) will be "wetter" than the Hobie due to water spraying vertically over the bows. Anyway, my vote goes to the 5.O - heck, if I had the $$ lying around - and a place to put it - I'd come pick that one up myself. Good luck, either way.

Andrew, you went 20 mph with 550 lb on board? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> that's incredible. one other thing - why do you spell it with the letter "O" and not the number "0"?

thanks for the invaluable input Wouter, you really just about hit every nail on the head. After your testimonial, I can't see how I could choose a Hobie over a Nacra. I have decided to go with the Nacra 5.0 for the many reasons you mentioned. A few of the things I really like about the Nacra are the boomless main, which means less rigging time and more sailing, and not having to worry as much about an accidental jibe; hull shape, which, from what I hear, is better for surfing and sailing through the medium-sized wake of the florida east coast ocean, which the Hobie has at least a slightly higher chance of pitchpoling in; the lower tramp, which is more comfortable on the butt when i'm not trapping; and a few other things that aren't popping into my head.

I'm still concerned about one thing though, and that's spare parts. What websites have replacement parts for a Nacra 5.0? I might want to replace the standing and/or running rigging after I get this boat. I can't use craigslist for EVERYTHING now... c-list is dandy for hobie stuff, but not so for nacra parts.

I bet Rick White has all your rigging right here! If he doesn't there are quite a few other places that will mail order parts.

Yeah - most, if not all, of the rigging and hardware is available here in the catsailor store (and at good prices too). Otherwise, you can get anything else from Performance Catamaran dealers like Key Sailing or Sailmax.biz

I had a 5.0 and loved it--you will too.

Parts are very easy to find: Catsailor.com online store, Murrays, SailingProShop.com

Many Nacra parts are interchangable between models; some parts can be refurbished with parts from the hardware store (eg the rudder bungees).

Will,

You don't mention price, so is a TheMightyHobie18 out of the question. I spent the last 2 weekends on a fleetmember's h16 and what a rush. It can be singlehanded, can carry 4 adults easily, and can fly a hull with 2 large males on the wire, it also can be setup and taken down by a single person with the right equiptment.

Just a thought and forgive the spelling.
Sam

Is that a typo about sailing with four people on a H-16? Did you mean Hobie 18?

Gavin Colby: Anyone who says the 16 is a dinosaur or a terrible boat probably sails a rival class, or has tried to sail the Hobie 16, thought it would be a push-over and failed. ...
The Hobie 16 doesn't forward capsize any more than a Formula 18.

Colby Interview

Yes, I'm not a masochist if that is what Gavin is saying.

Wouter

YES, I did mean TheMightyHobie18 Sorry

Poor comparison - the Hobie 16 doesn't carry a spinnaker or do anywhere near the same speed downhill. Before you flame on, I'm a fan of the Hobie 16...but the bannana hulls make the platform more sensitive to crew weight placement and the decks simply dig in harder when they go under. I'm not saying you can't sail it without driving it in - just that you have to be more sensitive to it.

I'm not flaming just setting the record straight by quoting someone who should know. The flames are coming from just about everywhere else and it's getting old. Some people need to realize that trying to tear down the 16 class isn't going to make another class grow. [Do we need to go back to the tall poppy syndrome?] At the end of the day when the wind builds and builds the 16s are the last boats still out there racing every time. Just a few weeks ago you could have found a bunch of 16s in NJ racing in 30 knots. No not 20 knots not 25 and not even 29.9. 30 knots steady. To say that they are more prone to pichpole than a more recently designed catamaran is simply false. I'm not picking on you this has been said by so many other people who just don't know. Again I'm just setting the record straight. If you don't take my word for it take Gavin Colby's.

Those are Gavins quotes
Who better to compare the H16 with the F18?
Hobie 16 World Champion
Round Texal Champion on a Tiger.

My limited experience has shown me that when you get the real good 16 guys(not me) on the same course with the real good Tiger(F18) guys is that the Tigers pitchpole as much or more in big wind.

There are so many H16's out there that you will get a lot of not so good sailors on them.(causing more flips)
There doesn't seem to be a lot of bad sailors on F18's

This is my third season sailing with my now 11 year old daughter and we haven't flipped yet. (knocking on wood)
We also don't stay out in much more than 20 knots

Same thing at our seminars -- as the wind started to build, all the other boats would gradually drop out of the drills and go to the beach, but the Hobie 16's would still be out there, having a great time. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Darnit Will_fl! I told myself I wasn't going to get sucked into these again! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK...enough with the Hobie 16 and F18 comparisons - it's apples and oranges really since the F18 carries so much more power downwind. I'll gladly agree that it is likely easier to keep the 16 upright than an F18 in a gusty blow. What we're discussing here, however, is the Hobie 16 and the Nacra 5.0 and their pitchpole resistance - which one can put the bow deeper into the back of a wave and survive standing?

The point that there are likely less skillful (i.e. newer) H16 sailors out and about is a good one.

EDIT: I think we can probably agree on a couple of things here: if you put the bow under on a Hobie 16, you are less likely to recover than if you put the bow under on a boat with a more perpendicular and rounded bow. HOWEVER, the bannana shape of the hulls makes the boat very sensitive to crew weight - which is a good thing if you have some experience and a bad thing if you don't. That is, if you keep your weight too far forward, you will pay for it more than you would on a boat like the 5.0. However, when it's blowing stink, the bannana shape of the hull lends itself to keeping the bow high if your crew weight is back back back.

It always seems that the arguments between the Nacra and Hobie sailors come from the same people that are scratching their heads wondering why catamaran sailing isn't as big as it once was. Most Nacra sailors wouldn't be out on the water if it wasn't for Hobie. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The best thing I ever did was (let Trey) chop up my Hobie with a chainsaw.

</gasoline>

It's amazing that H16 owners always seem to think that whenever the boats obvious shortcomings are discussed they see a need to defend the boat. It's been a great boat, there's no denying that. Lots of people have had, and are still having huge fun sailing the thing. It's been responsible for much interest in cat sailing generally and probably has contributed more potential sailors to cats than any other boat.

It says much about the boat that it is still popular today after 30 or 40 years on the water but there's no denying that it embodies very old technology requiring particular skills from the crew to sail it well. I guess that if one can sail a H16 well, success on any other class possibly comes somewhat easier, but the reality is they are a very old design which in these times is very much outdated.

Nobody expects existing H16 sailors to burn their boats or feel in any way inferior because they still like to sail them, but you need to relax.
If you want to sail/race a H16, good for you but expect that when asked, the rest of the world will have a realistic opinion.