Basically I am looking for a document of some sort from an "authority" such as US Sailing, Hobie, etc., that I can give to our race judge. Last weekend our judge set the gate with only three boat lengths between the marks. Generally we all felt that the gates was too tight...

Please e-mail answer to: rringerr@aol.com

Si... too tight. Boats appoaching on opposing tacks will not have room to give way per the rules of racing.

If the gate is only 3 boat lengths wide the 2 boat length circles around each mark overlap. (Not a good thing.) The number I have heard and which sounds about right to me is 7 boat lengths.

Generally accepted consensus among european competitors is 5 boatlengths MINIMUM. Any smaller than that and I'm certain the RC would get a raft of complaints. Although I don't think I've ever seen it written down anywhere?

In larger fleets (and often smaller ones) the gate is usually much larger. IMO faster boats such as cats need larger gates because of the distance travelled in short periods of time. The RC needs to allow competitors sufficient room to respond to each other and therefore I'd want to see cat fleets with larger gates than the dinghies of similar size use.

The gates started in Miami. As PRO of the Tornado course, we were asked to experiment with various courses to make Olympic sailing more interesting, easier to follow, more spectator friendly, etc. This was an edict by the Olympic folks with the added note that if sailing didn't start making money it would be eliminated.
So, we got to work and tried a bunch of stuff during the Miami Olympic Regatta.
We tried gates at the weather mark (really wild and exciting but very dangerous)
gate at midway down/up wind (eliminating banging corners and allowed spectators to see who had the lead other than at the top and the bottom. Also, allowed spectator boats closer to the starting line without interfering.)
Gate at the bottom (still used)

We determined that 10 boat lengths was very good and personally I still think that is what it should be. Get much closer and you risk having overlapping double two-length zones.., lots of confusion and probably lots of Protests.
I was part of the RC at the Olympics in Savannah and in charge of the gates.., sort of. Paul Ulibarri was PRO and kept insisting the gates be set as close as 4 to 6 boat lengths.
And I do not think the sailors were very happy with that setting. After all these boats are really hauling and two boat lengths goes pretty fast. 10 BLs apart allow for a bit more time for decisions.
Rick

US Sailing Race Management Handbook.

I don't have my copy with me here, but I believe it recommends gates be set 5-8 boatlengths apart. As others have already mentioned, gates too close play havoc with rule 18. For catamarans, I would set gates on the wide side. Due to their speed approaching the leeward mark, "about to round or pass" can extend well beyond 2 boatlengths.

Regards,
Eric

Paul was PRO for the 97 H17 Nationals in Syracuse. He used 7 as the minimum number of boat lengths between marks. I have sailed in most of the 16 nationals since then and they are also run at about 7. I worked the gate boat at the Alter Cup in Syracuse that PU was also the PRO. We used more like 10 boats as it was windy and the boats were Tigers. The spin boats need a bit more room.
Maybe something was learned at the Olympics.

How about the offset mark?
How many boats lengths away should that be and what heading from A?

I have heard that the number suggested is 7 boat lengths. I have rarely seen 7 boat lengths unless the marks floated away. I would say that most of the time they are 4 to 6 boat lengths. 4 has to be the minimum for each mark to be allowed their own circle of rights. 10 boat lenghs on a fomula 18 is 180 feet. That is almost 2/3 the length of a football field! How many people have ever seen a gate that wide? I have never seen one even close to that. I just hope to see more than 4 for a small fleet and closer to 7 with a large fleet.

Later,
Dan

Ask your judge when two boats are approaching the gate on opposite tacks, and they each want to round without gybing (round the gate mark in front of them), and they're both within their respective two-boat-length-zones (because they overlap) which one is the inside boat and which one has to give the other room.

He'll set the marks farther apart next time.

Regards,
Eric

Pat,

If memory serves me...PU was running gates in 1994 at the first Syracuse H17 Continentals as an experiment. We've been running gates ever since. A good rule of thumb that I've observed over the years is between 5 and 7 boat lengths.

John B.

Eric nailed it, Chapter 6.6 of the US Sailing Race Management Handbook recommends 5 to 8 boat lengths.

IMHO fast spin cats should be wider in big air. 5 would be sufficient for Waves.

Overlapping zones is just nuts. You need a race officer, not a judge. I am willing to bet he/she is neither.

BTW, you can always check certification status online. US Sailing Membership Search

My only question, how much boat damage occured?

Thanks for taking the time to look it up. I had intended to, but other things (teaching a learn-to-sail class every evening this week) keep driving it from my mind.

The purpose of the newer course marks (windward offset mark and leeward gates) is to reduce congestion (and therefore confusion and protests) at the roundings. If you set leeward gate marks too close together, it makes the rounding more confusing - not less. If you set them too far apart, then one will likely end up noticably favored and all the sailors will go to it. That renders the gate useless. If the favored side happens to be the starboard rounding mark, then you're actually making things difficult again. Many sailors are unfamiliar with the differences a starboard rounding entails.

What's "right" depends on the wind and water conditions, the speed and manuverability of the boats, and the skill level of the competitors. 5-8 boatlengths is US Sailing's recommended rule-of-thumb.

Regards,
Eric

I'd also like to add, as a certified RO, that in small fleets, a gate is totally unneccesary. As pointed out, a leeward gate is a tool to reduce congestion and prevent protest situations. It should not be used to influence or dictate tactics to the fleet. I have seen that some sailors miss this point and criticize race management for not setting a gate for 10-boat regattas. It isn't about "options" for the fleet, it is about providing the fairest playing field. If you're buried coming into C, it isn't fair to the guys that sailed better than you to have a magical bail-out to a clear rounding on a different mark. Right tool for the job, folks - you don't use a ratchet on a wing nut. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

John:

I thought you might find this interesting.

D'oh! Call the analogy police!

John B
I did a little digging and found the article Matt Bounds wrote for the 94 H17 Nats and found that is where the Gate was introduced to us. It even says they were set 7 boat lengths apart. The third race the first day was a 6G.

John W.
Interseting comment about the use of the Gate. I hadn't really thought of it that way.
I kinda remember the Gate being introduced to create more exciting racing as Rick said previously.
There are more options and you can set the gate on the non-favored side a liitle up wind to entice people to try and go that way.
The downwind finishes were also added to add some passing lanes and maybe make the finishes more exciting.
The Olympic fleets that use these things aren't that big.

6 Boat lengths minimum, max 10.

There is no hard and fast rule. You need to watch the fleet as they approach and see what sort of confusion there is.

Even at the worlds in Mexico, we had them at about 7ish. 140 boats had no problem working their way through.

What is most important is that they are square to the wind, however you can skew them if need be to force boats to not all take the same side.

We skew the gate makes and the windward marks to adjust for either wind sheer or current.

Michael Walker
CYA IV Race Officer (or is it Senior Canadian RO?)