Oh FFS! Read what he says. According to the man himself, he made a tactical error at a crucial time and paid dearly. The champions got it right and congratuations to them. His choice of boat was of little or no consequence in this situation and makes the origional quote a little silly.

Tiger Mike

MEEEOoooow "Tiger"!, I took in what the guy said. I was asking a question to clarify what the scene is regarding sponsorhip and money and if these things help define rides for the guns of the sport. He is as close to a professional as there is and it's not a crazy question. Your not his Mommy and he can tell me to mind my own buisiness because he is a grown up. Valium's in the top draw.

I thought it was a valid question - not likely one to get a reply, but a valid question none-the-less.

Disrespectful

I don't think its disrespectful at all,

Plus, theres no written rule that we all have to sit around in a big circle, hold hands, and sing kumbaya together.

It is a bit personal though, a bit like asking "how is your wife in the sack"?, or "how much do you REALLY earn"?, or "how big ARE your 'assets'"?
Some would answer boastingly, but most would consider the questions "inappropriate" and treat them accordingly, I would, but that's just me.

From the Hobie Division 3 (Northern California) chairperson's report the the NA Hobie annual meeting.

"On the championship front, two classes, the Tigers and 17s, were offered North American events in the Division. The combined event was bid, in its entirety, by the Saint Francis Yacht Club with the endorsement of Division 3’s Fleet 240. In the end, it was only the 17 fleet that chose to attend the event. It is regrettable that the Tiger class allowed this truly unique opportunity to pass. I am pleased to report that the 15 boats in the 17 class represented the Hobie class extraordinarily well and these gentlemen should be thoroughly commended. The 17 class enjoyed the truly world-class regatta management of the StFYC’s professional regatta staff and the undeniably gracious hospitality of the club. It was a stellar event! It’s a pretty nice place. It has some nice views as well.

I understand that there will be a full report on the Tiger class NA issue by the regatta committee; I hope to add some comment to that report before it is presented. This is the second year in a row that we have not had a NAs for this class which is very much a shame. This was indeed a world-class opportunity well and truly blown! With an organization such as the StFYC, very much at the progressive fore-front of our sport, the impact of this non-event could well extend beyond the local area and region. I was at the event every day, on the committee boat for most of the time, and I would like to reiterate that the Hobie 17 class saved a lot of face for the Hobie class."

From the Race Director's report to the annual meeting.

"TIGER
Tiger North Americans

This event scheduled for July at the St Francis Yacht Club in San Francisco was canceled due to a lack of entries.

A bit of history regarding the event. it was conceived by John Craig, the Race Director of the St Francis Yacht Club. He contacted us last year with an inquiry as to hosting the event. We met John at the Tiger Worlds in Santa Barbara, and went over all of the details. He was given a bid package. During the world event, both Lori and PU had chats with at least a dozen of the US Tiger sailors. All showed enthusiasm for the event. There were no negatives voiced. Lori also had chats with the Factory Tiger team.

Events followed which we will transmit to all assembled during the AGM.


HOBIE 17.
One week prior to the event, we only had 9 registered boats. We made a few calls, as did some of the competitors and that figure went up to 14 boats a few days prior to the event.
PU had several discussions with John Criag regarding the situation and its effect on the event budget. The effect was that the club would go into serious debt unless we made some cuts.
We did make cuts that we felt would not effect the competiton, but were still well in the red. At this point PU recommended he not attend the event, thereby saving lodging and transportation cost for the RO. Instead John who is qualified, would be the RO.
The final registration figures were 15 boats."

Bundy IS a professional sailor and he DOES have a professional relationship with Hobie Cat.

The Tiger is by no means non-competitive, however Bundy / Gashby certainly get the most out of it as they do with any boat they sail. Hard to expect them to race the perfect regatta every time. If it was not for them dominating every regatta leading up to it, then expectations would not be so high...... 2nd is a VERY CREDITABLE effort.

1. I am a professional sailor. No one is hiding that. Thats why its called the Nissan Hobie Cat PRO Team.
2. 18 of the top 22 at the f18 worlds are also professional or beniting in someway.
3. I have been approached by the majority of manufactures for similar benifits.
4. I grew up sailing Hobie Cats (H14, H16, TheMightyHobie18) before I turned professional. '89 H14 worlds was my first international regatta.
5. Helge Sach was the first professional small cat sailor I can think of.
6. I dont think Hobie need to change.
7. Sailing is still my sport and passion just like you guys.

Anymore questions I will have to start charging as I am a "professional"..Joking. Most of you guys are probably at work and getting paid while you write this stuff. Are you professional forumers? I enjoy reading your forum when I am at the airport, great goss.

Cheers
Bundy

Many thanks for the reply. I just wish I was in your shoes as far as talent and job are concerned. I meant no disrespect but have an open interest in how these things work. If I was in your place I would be working it for all it was worth while remaining competitive and enjoying myself because that is life.

OK OK OK...NOW you're getting personal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am not professional and never have been, in fact I paid good money to have the pleasure!! of sailing the Tiger and this out of date boat got me into 3rd place over all going into the last race of the 06 F18 Worlds. I was at the first f18 worlds and was involved in the development of the first prototype Capricorn from AHPC, I do believe that it has a slight advantage in some conditions but the Tiger still has its day, I cannot remember one race that I had a Capricorn off the start come over the top of me, in fact if it was in any way, I would say that I had a boat speed advantage, I think you guys need to forget about the boat speed and direct your efforts to practising.
In reference to the rudders there is nothing wrong with the profile of the Tiger's you do get a little bit of flex from the white ones but the carbon rudders even though it's only an outside layer work equally as good as a Capricorns the only reason the Capricorn gives you the impression that it is better is in the hull design, that it sits on top of the water and not in it. The talk about wave piercing is all sales talk, if you analyse video footage of the two boats there is less pitch in the Tiger then the Capricorn this is caused by added volume in the bow and the stern, which cause's it to sail up and over waves rather than through them (wave piercing?). Quality the Tiger does have some faults, but don't kid yourself the Capricorn is no Mercedes-Benz even though you're properly paid a similar price, with a limited amount of sails you will find compression marks in the deck, and the anodising scratches easy and you will find the rudder assembly has its faults, all in all they are very similar in quality. The Tiger mast has been changed to a lighter section but this has been around for awhile, the Capricorn's mast varies from batch to batch and even Mr Goodall complained that he had a soft mast section at the 04 Worlds and there were complaints at the 06 worlds. So if you're thinking about buying a new boat study the results over a number regattas and you will see that you have many options, your choice should be made without the influence of Salesman.
If the Tiger can make me look good it's not off the pace! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark Laruffa

WHAT THE????????

This is just a post to the general public and not intended as a direct reply to mr. Bundock.

I in fact am on the side of the people who say that any design is good enough to win a championship on; it is the training, talent and shear determination that gets you there. Still, I can't help to notice a glaring disconnect over the last couple of years.

I remember the Tiger from 1995, it had a squaretop (small) mainsail and a jib sail that was sheeted of a wire running across the trampoline. The spinnaker looked like a balloon and was launched from a bag on the trampoline. The downhaul was 1:8 and the downhaul line was a thick as my thumb. The mast rotation was placed on the boom and the boom was a large rectangular section with an internal car. Just to name a few points, there are more.

Then, quite quickly we say the squaretop being replaced by a pin head mainsail, a mylar version. The jib sheeting was moved to the mainbeam and the spinnaker sail changed slowly into a more flat shape with broader shoulders.

Only 1 or 2 years later again, the trampoline setup was changed and the squaretop sail was reintroduced which hobie called the ST mainsail. The first pentex sails were introduced. The first snuffers began to be introduced and the boom was replaced by a much lighter round tube without a clew car. The Tiger hulls received a stiffening subdeck in the bows.

A little later again the selftacker was introduced and the new STX mainsail which has a significantly larger head and was exclusively pentex based. The spinnaker went through another shape change making them actually quite good of the shelve (which before that time was not always the case). The rig was properly sorted and rumour has it that is was named the Booth set of sails. I don't know to what extend that rumour reflects reality. On the beach it was however called that for a while.

But we are not done yet, not too long ago much stiffer carbon daggerboards and rudder boards were introduced and mast rotation was moved down to the trampoline and the downhaul system became a cascading 12:1 system with specialized flexible high tensile lines to reduce friction. I just read the post by mark laruffa and he states that the mast itself was replaced by a slightly softer one in the past. If this is true then that is a significant change as well.

What can we expect in the future. First of all the new fully battened jib. Very quickly the Tiger is the last F18 in the fleet to have an old style pear shaped mast. Either all the others with elliptical masts are wrong or Hobie will join this group in the future. This of course means another mast change. And we can go on .... but I think this part of my argument is pretty clear.

So what is my point exactly ?


Well during these 10 years I have heard scores of Hobie sailors say that they thought that the Tiger was good enough as it was and never needed to change.


Personally I would like to see one of those take out a 1995 vintage Tiger to a championship and proof all of us who made changes wrong.

Now I'm sure mr Bundock and mr. Ashby will come a very long way on such a boat precisely because they are very talented and have put in enormous amounts of time training and honing their skills. But I seriously doubt they would come out on top sailing this 1995 vintage boat. When given a choice I'm sure they will opt to use the 2005 (or 2006) version.

Give it another 10 years (or even less) and the same can be said of the 2005 version. Ergo the Tiger design NEEDS to change and WILL change in the coming years. It is inevitable.


Wouter

Well that took a lot of work to say nothing!!! we all know about the changes on the Tiger. Hobie has handled the arms race pretty good it still the closest thing you'll get to one class racing, I'd just purchased another second-hand Tiger which is almost 3 years old with the view that I can compete in the next Hobie Worlds and be competitive next couple f18 championships, and we live in the land of the Capricorn. For a boat that you keep trying to make look like its a had been, has forced the APHC to modify the Capricorn with two versions of a cunningham, two locations of stay and spreader fastenings, two types of front and rear beams, three variations to hulls at least six variations of mains, talk of moving the centre board's and changing rudders, all this just to keep upto an outdated boat, why don't you just leave it alone and go sailing.

Regards Mark
Ps; you must have too much time on your hands a hate to think what's going to happen when winter finally hits Europe

Did no one notice the Attachment??? WHAT THE!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I noticed and wondered what a spaceship from the 80's "shoot em up" computer game 'Elite' was doing here <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Tiger is pretty dead as topic for this thread, so I might as well ask. What is it? The next Predator?

Oh, a last thing. As a down under citizen, you are not allowed to make jokes about wintertime. It's pretty awful and we northeners are allowed some slack! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well said Mark, (in both notes)

I noticed the attachment but thought I was swarn to secrecy. I guess the word is out then.

Tuck.

PS Kite arrived yesterday. Looks great, thanks.

Mark,

Is that lip on "WHAT THE" the "don't go underwater" thing you were talking about in France? Looks interesting...have to tried to attach something to an existing boat to see if the concept works? I know that the marine architects think it is cool but does it work? Maybe you could get some older design of boat and make a foam mold then glass it right onto the hull then try to bury the bow. I would like to see the video of that!

Later,
Dan

well that should take the presure off the Tiger!!!
thinking of you all I am on my way to Yeppoon for two days of Sun <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
don't be a looser see you there Feb 2007 party time!!!
do not forget it is a open event so come and see whos the fastest
mark

If one lip works why not have five and get five times the lift. Oh, then it would be a clinker lookalike.
I can see the headlines now! Tiger updates to clinker.
Settle Tiger groupies..just kidding.