It is the development of other boats in relation to the old blurb that I refer to. Old blurb is no excuse..it is a website so update it. For that matter update the boat. making an entirely new platform truely will leave the 4.9 in the past.

I have sailed 4.9s quiet often over a long period of time. Our club whilst numbers have dropped recently, boasted a good fleet of them. Australia still boasts a good fleet of them and get good numbers to major regattas.

Wouter admitted he has never taken them that seriously or realy put the time into them. He may be a good sailor, however the AUS 4.9 fleet is in a different leauge and have some real world class sailors.... Sailors that have placed at the top of International fleets such as A Class, Tornado and F18.... And I am not just talking about Gashby.

"If it comes down to who to take seriously about the advantages and realities of a Taipan 4.9"..... Then talk to the AUS Taipan fleet.

Quote or direct us to the 'old' blurb or it no longer exists.



I don't think you realise how the class stands in OZ..... You admit in previous posts that you know very little about the 4.9 and that you also have no one to race aginst in NZ.... Yet you feel qualified to pass these comments.

Firstly, it is the class members that make the decision to change... Not AHPC. The class is alive and well and its members are currently happy, so why change. Also, name another 16 footer without spinnaker that comes even close at the moment.

The Hobie 16 is way out of date.... Should they change.

Personly I think the hull shape of the Taipans are still up there with the best of them.

Something you may begin to understand about me is that I am hear to learn, not just to see myslef in print or to be right. If I do not pass comments I cannot participate. You are clear that the Taipan is outmoded speed wise compared to the F16 version of same boat. So let's not pretend those advances do not exist. Sure, If we go back to 1995 the Taipan is awesome, but as Wouter says the advances have been made and AHPC have not decided to advance the boat and wish to go with a new platform. Is that not the death nell/ If it is so crash hot why are the very people who designed and made it moving on?????
You have said in your last post the numbers in your club have dwindled.What are they sailing now?.. I will bet the boats they have chosen are a new box rule class with spinnies.
The boat will always be a great ride so die hards will keep racing them, or odd balls like me in the wops who just have a need for speed, just because they exist but do you seriously think that when the new boat come out that people will buy the old one and the old Taipan 4.9 class will thrive and grow?

The Taipan does not meet F16 specs.... It is not a spinnaker class for starters. Different boat, Different market.



Once again... It is not AHPC descision but that of the association and it's members. Still after 14 or so years, the Taipan has no equal as far as 16 foot non spinnaker cats go...... So show me where the Blade, Stealth ect are superior here. The 4.9 is optimised for this configeration where the others are optimised for spinnaker.

If you decide to optimise and develop the 4.9 as an F16 then some F16 sailors will be eating some humble pie.

However, as I stated before.... It is in the best interest of the 4.9 class to develop a new platform for F16 so as to not do any damage to what is still a very strong class.



Our club has dropped in numbers significantly with fleets such as 4.9s, A Class and Nacra 5.8s which were previously the most popular classes now seeing small fleets as with all other classes. Some of our 5.8 and Tornado sailors have moved into the F18 Class but in general, we as with most sailing clubs, have just lost members.

In Oz the strongest cat fleets nationaly are still the A Class, F18, Hobie 16 and Taipan 4.9.

Hey Stephen, those yardsticks are a little "misleading". although the Taipans have been racing for many years and their yardstick represent THEIR current comparative performance against boats such as A class, Formula 18's Tornado's and 5.8 Nacra's, there are a lot of cats on that list who's ratings have been "stuck in time" and bear no relationship to current performance (if in fact all of them were even still racing)
One comparison that you have neglected is the comparison of the CURRENT Yachting Victoria yardstick rating for the F14, which at 77 compares very favourably to the 76.5 and the 73.5 for the Taipan. (If I were sailing a Taipan I would definitely want it set up as an F16, if for no other reason than to “get the F14’s off my back”)

You can't have it both ways. If the Taipan 4.9 is not developing because of the sailors but AHPC want to make an excellent F16 why are they changing the platform. They don't have to ask the 4.9 fleet for permission and if they kept the same platform the older boats would have more life.
I will stick with my first position, Wouter seems for more pragmatic and less passionate about this one.
But passion is a great thing.

I am in no way passionate about the class, have never owned one and only been a member of the Association for the Capricorn Nationals this year only.

I just call it as I see it and it looks like we have people passing comment from other countries that have no idea about the AUS Taipan sceane which is where it is ALL happening.

Why not post these comments on the Taipan Yahoo group forums and see the responses you get.

I think you will find Wouter is more passionate and has more of an interest in the 16 footers than I have.

Darryl, yes some of those yardsticks may be a little inaccurate..... but not by THAT much. I am quoting 2005/2006 yardstick data too.

From what I have heard the little F14 is a bit of a giant killer too and look forward to saeeing it at Forster soon.

The Marstrom 18 is much quicker than the A Class..... So should the A Class evolve ???? Has it been left behind, in the past.

M18 is wider, taller mast, larger main and a spinnaker added.

The F16 is also wider than a Taipan 4.9, larger main, spinnaker added.

Should the 4.9 class and A Class move ahead with the times????? If their members disagree and the class is still strong, then why change.

Don't get me wrong... I have always been vocal about how I would like to see the 4.9 move to full spec F16 and the A Class adopt spinnakers.... However this is not what the class wants and it should not be forced upon them.

I don't know Stephen, there never was a competitive race ever sailed by an Alpha Omega 5m when they didn't absolutely "thrash" any and all Hobie 16's over the line, and when the Taipans were in their first three years of racing (with many top sailers in the class as well) and the 5m Alpha's still raced competitive fleets, it was only on the rare occasion that a Taipan would ever cross the line in front of the first Alpha, But sadly that is all in the past “glory days" when numbers of ALL cats were really "up" and “inter class” competition was at it’s highest peak.
We are really looking forward to Forster, BUT, lets be truthful now, you will only be pleased to see us if your view of the F14 is from looking at them from “some where over your transoms”! If you have to look forward to catch a glimpse of them, will we have “worn out our welcome”?? (He, He, He).
(Personally – and it is just a personal opinion – I think that the Taipans are missing a golden opportunity by not “upgrading” their specs to full F16 as a class. It would achieve the greatest outcome with the minimum disruption, and breathe new life into the class that would see them at the “forefront” for many more years to come).

I couldn't agree more. Carbon mast isn't even needed (F16 minimum tip weight mitigates some benefit.) Wouter's F16, with a new set of sails, should hold with any brand new F16.
The newer sail cuts are amazing--my fellow Taipan sailor in Calif. leapfrogged ahead of me in terms of boat speed with his new Glaser main; we have the same skills.

Hi Darryle,

I am not that familuar with the AOs, however knowing you were the manufacture.... I take what you say with a grain of salt. No offence intended.

Forster.... Look forward to it, however we will not be going head to head with you guys as we will probably race on an offset course (State Championships) with the A Class. Would be willing to go head to head with any F16 / F14 any time. One day we will race on the same course.

If you are interested, we could probably do a boat swap out side of racing.

Can you tell me a little about the cut of the new sail you are talking about? Cheers

When you say, "boat swap" Stephen, do you mean that we take home your boat and you take home our boat? Not sure I like that idea too much. The extra cost in towing home your boat due to the much greater drag and weight would cost us a fortune in extra petrol!!! (Only joking) I'm sure the boys would love to accommodate a boat swap outside of races, thanks for the offer Stephen.
Unlike "advertising Hype" Steve, the type of results that I described against Hobies and Taipans are all on "public record" and if anything, I have erred on the conservative side.

Also my opinion mate...... If I was the powers to be, in the class, this would be the approach I would push for.

See http://www.glasersails.com/formula16.htm

For point of reference, I have an awesome Ashby main, but it's 2 year old design--photo attached.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You are on to me

Been plenty of activity here.... good thing the boss does not know what I do with my time <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just "BE THE BOSS" Steve
Works for me.

Great reference, many thanks

Isn't it a little bit silly arguing that I don't know my way in the way of class building and the advantages and realities of a Taipan 4.9 ?

Afterall wasn't I instrumental in putting the Taipan on the map internationally and wasn't I the one who actually made all the upgrades to my own boat ? And wasn't I a somewhat important part of an class that actually grew both geographically, in numbers, designs and cloud these last years instead of being in permanent decline ?

But to everybody his right to disagree.

Sure a good number will beat my %^#&# on the water but in the way of class policy and class growth I think I'll qualify as a hot shot that would woop many behinds including those of the Aussie Taipan sailors.

Disagree with me at your own risk I say therefor.

Wouter