Good question Sparky. IMO it depends on various factors, wind strength, tide, sea state, other competition, 2 up or solo and your ability, determination to name but a few. It is always worth considering this option when sailing a course which is initially tight for a kite. In our local sailing press they would recommend putting the kite up first, sailing as high as reasonable and then drop the kite for a good reach into the mark. Rather than sailing high first then putting the kite up. The reason for this is that it is just much easier to judge the best angles. So as far as I'm concerned you are correct and putting up the kite is probably the quickest way to go in this scenario

Agree with the above. Unless there are actical reasons (i.e. what is around you) then kite up first and then take it down if you need to.

spotted 2 blades at 18.00 hours today on the beach

4 sailors in the pub <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, if there is a "dimple" in the side of your polars.

I suspect most spinnaker boats (without barberhaulers) will have a range of reaching angles that are too hot for the spinnaker, and too deep for attached flow without the spinnaker. The range of angles increases with wind speed. In this case, alternating between sailing high without spinnaker and low with spinnaker can help.

We thought this would work in the Great Texas 300 (~500km) race up the Texas coast. Overpowered on a beam reach in 7' seas and ~20kts of wind, the Nacra 20 just can't beam reach without the main stalled, and jib shape was a joke. Heading up gave us great VMG compared to the fleet. Unfortunately, before we could set the 'chute, we pitchpoled and shredded the spinnaker bag, ending our attempt at this technique. I'm pretty sure it would have worked in flatter waters when overpowered on a reach.

On the first day, in lighter conditions, we tried it without success. On the same day, the leg winner sailed high and laid the finish with a single jibe. However, his success had to do with the gradient wind being along the course and the coastal wind being perpendicular. By sailing out of the coastal wind, he was able to carry a spinnaker with better VMG than those reaching closer to the shore. The leg was 90mi (~150km).

F16 and Spitfire scoring listing (on ELAPSED time)

-1- Geert Ruesink / Karin Weeda ---- Blade F16
-2- Verhaeghe / Degroeve ---- Spitfire
-3- Paul Warren / Anne Powter ---- Blade F16
-4- Hans Klok (solo) ---- Blade F16
-5- Jaap Haasnoot / and his son ---- Blade F16
-6- Feddes (solo) ---- Spitfire
-7- Martien Kooyman / hr Van Marle ---- Bim F16 (without a jib)
-8- Bard Louis / Lonneke Stark ---- Stealth F16 [color:"red"] !!!! temporary as their scoring is suspect !!!! [/color]
-9- Wouter Hijink (solo) ---- DSQ (outside assistance)


These are the results as I can compose them right now based on the first results available from this race. Changes are possible.

Wouter

Wouter

Was it John de Vries who won ?

Most likely yes. It is a 20 foot boat and I don't know of any other sailor called de Vries that can win such an event. So yes I think it is him.

Wouter

That was quite something - I've never seen so many catamarans in one place! 190 boats starting for a reaching course really teaches you the meaning of clean air. We got a fairly poor start, and by the time that we'd luffed our way over to the "overtaking lane", the boats that had been just a few lengths in front of us on the start had twin-wired their way to the horizon.



Proof that I was there. Behind you can see Hans adding some finishing touches to NED1111. There are some interesting new features on this boat, some of which will be standard on European Blades.

We had some good close racing amongst the F16s. We caught a glimpse of Geert early on, but he got away, leaving us swapping places with Hans and Jaap all the way up the outbound leg. We never saw Bard on the course, but I understood that he was up with Geert - is there an error in the results here?

Racing in a fairly narrow channel with a strong cross wind was a challenge. The trees and windmills meant that we were constantly swapping between sat in and forward, and trapezing (sometimes twin trapezing) off the back of the boat. Fortunately, with such a big fleet, there are always plenty of "wind indicators" around, with the really big gusts marked by people swimming <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We had a minor incident when Ann found the limits of how far you can get your weight back and ended up trapezing off the tiller cross-bar...

All in all, a really great day. It's a shame we didn't give Geert and Bard some more trouble, but we finished by over-taking a couple of Nacra 20s, so we were pretty pleased with how we did.



A small fraction of the fleet.

Thanks to everyone for such a warm welcome. It was great to see our sport really is so active on the other side of the channel, it's just a shame that the ferry prices mean that we can't get over more often.

Paul

Geert reported later on the beach that he and Karin (his crew) were near to Bard and Lonneke for the leg back. With the gap shrinking and extending like a bungee cord with the gusts/windlanes.

But now that I look at the results more closely I say what you are referring too.

Bard had just gotten ahead of me when rounding the halveway mark. So I too now wonder about the result by Bard and Lonneke. Right before I capsized Bard/Lonneke overtook me. But in the scoring listing I see Hans Klok, Martien Kooyman/(crew) van Marle, and even the Spitfires ahead of Bard/Lonneke, despite the fact I have seen these crews go past my capsized boat myself and they were all quite some time behind Bard/Lonneke. Maybe there is a scoring error or maybe they capsized as well, just like several of us ? Does anybody know ?

Looking even more closely at the results shows that they only finished less then 9 minutes ahead of me and that was after me being over for a good 10 or 15 minutes and sailing back really relaxed for over an hour and 30 minutes.

I had assumed on the beach that Bard/Lonneke creamed us all.

Wouter

I had the worst start ever. I was going backwards at the moment of the startsignal. Some very anti-social elements forced me to pull the emergency-brake, they locked me up, etc. I didnot realize that my traveller was not yet in the middle of the beam so I didnot manage to stop the backwards movement before I found out about the traveller. The result was that I started as the last boat ! After the startline I took the first road on the right, moved a few hundred meters upwind and started the race perhaps 10 or 15 minutes after the first boat went over the line. This manouevre helped a lot because I was in the company of at least 3 other blades at about half of the first leg. On the way back I lost perhaps 10 or 15 minutes because we sailed the race with one trapeze (Thijs, 50 kg) and dived 3 times with Thijs at the front of the boat(no footstraps, mastrake far too forward. Using 2 trapezes with this boattrim would have been too dangerous with the extreme windgusts that dominated the race. I saw extreme many capsizes. It was however a lot of fun with flat water, enough (but too gusty)wind, sun and nice temperature. It was the first race ever for Thijs (14 )with a lot of wind and the fourth time he was on a catamaran. In this respect he has done a very good job !
In essence the race was 60 km of reaching which made the differences between the handicaps less important, darts did for instance very well with this circumstances. And af course a bad start is under these conditions (190 boats before you and only reaching) hardly to compensate with tactical tricks. With the correct mastrake I would of course have done better. Starting while moving backwards have caused a lot of fun in our family. The good thing is of course that this can easily be bettered next year. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quote:


We never saw Bard on the course, but I understood that he was up with Geert - is there an error in the results here?

Credits to Bard and Lonneke, Bard and Lonneke finished about one minute in front of us. So An error in the results.

It was quite a lot of fun , good wind and almost no waves, so good for some decent speed!

Good to see Paul and Ann coming over. They didn't get much time to relax as being cought in a big traffic Jam. It happened that al lot of sailors had the same problem and the committee decided to delay the start with half an hour. Guess that saved quite a lot of people.

The start could be better, try'd to squeeze in at the committee boat, but for some reason they didn't let me in there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />, so had to tack away just before the start. A minute too late over the line but at least clean air for a while. That did help. At one time I saw Paul, but he probably got more covered than i was. Halfway caught a glimpse of Wouter, you can't miss his yellow boat. When we were at the halfway mark the gap was closed a bit, Wouter capsized and Bard was in sight, so we knew what we had to do. Had to push it the bit but we where a tiny bit faster. After a while we just passed Bard and at the same time stuffed the bow quite hard. Karin made a nice flight, passing the forestay and landing gently on the snuffer entrance <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Were lucky and saved it from a capsize, Karin just came aboard from the leeside and we could continue. Bard was still in reach so.. The story continued, got close again, and stuffed it again, but not that severe this time. Decided to ease it little a bit, no more trap wiring from the back of the boat for the last part of the race.

The only problem was that we couldn't use the spi. Am used to relax downwind and just steer my way down, but now even the skipper has to work and play the mainsheet. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Still a nice race.

Geert

With Geerts admission that he came second to Bard and Lonneke (by a minute) we have the following results :

F16 and Spitfire scoring listing (on ELAPSED time)

-1- Bard Louis / Lonneke Stark ---- Stealth F16
-2- Geert Ruesink / Karin Weeda ---- Blade F16
-3- Verhaeghe / Degroeve ---- Spitfire
-4- Paul Warren / Anne Powter ---- Blade F16
-5- Hans Klok (solo) ---- Blade F16
-6- Jaap Haasnoot / and his son ---- Blade F16
-7- Feddes (solo) ---- Spitfire
-8- Martien Kooyman / hr Van Marle ---- Bim F16 (without a jib)
-9- Wouter Hijink (solo) ---- DSQ (outside assistance) Taipan F16 (with big yellow pontoons ehh hulls)


So congrats to Bard and Lonneke with their win in our little class !

Wouter

Did anybody see my first posting about this race, my race report. It appears that it is completely gone now ?

Disappeared completely.


Wouter

Yes, I had the pleasure of reading it this morning, thinking how excellent it was and about how to avoid the cramping problem you had. I also wondered why you was sheeting the main instead of the traveller if you had a "death grip" on the mainsheet.
I tought perhaps you had deleted it?

Very sincere congratulations to all the boats who completed this race, but especially to Bard & Lonneke, despite sailing a boat considered by some to be the poor relation within the F16 circus, managed to pip a first! Perhaps the Stealth is not the 'entry level boat' for the 'not so serious racers' afterall.

Anybody want to retract their statement? I have a memory like a circus elephant.

Suze I wouldn't think of you as a circus elephant, maybe I had better watch my toes in future. As the UK is certainly showing, there really is nothing in these boats and it really is becoming a class of who is the best sailor and not the boat, on the day.

Ok then, RTG 2006, it was great!
We were on the perfect start position 3th or 4th boat next to the start ship, 1 min. to go before start "someone" solo on a spitfire pushed against our back and pushed the rudders over so we had a unwilling tack, in front of the whole starting fleet!!!
So restart, we were further down the line and a bit more cautious and therefore everybody pushed infront of us witch resulted in a bad start <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
We had a great race though we registerd on Friday with spi and hoped we could use it, like a lot of you, only with spi our handicap would be 96 instaed of 100 without. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
But still we were the first Nacra 6.0 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> not bad after all.

Paul it was nice to meet you and Anne I'm glad to read that you had a nice time over here, next time you sail here be sure to stay away from those windmills and trees as we did, we sailed in the middle of the water and had better wind we passed a lot of cats there going untherneath them.

We passed Wouter a few hundred meters before the turing buoy, passed a spitfire halfway back next to the island of Tiegemeten and saw nobody else because we were to busy racing! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So I had a great weekend with a lot of fun, eating, drinking and some spectacular sailing(you saw the man, on the beach after the race, sawing of his daggerboard because he hit ground and his board split completely open?)
3 days well spent!

Suze,

Allow me to be absolutely frank with you here.

It seems some Stealth sailors and reps are busy creating a myth here :




This was never said or written by anyone on this forum or in any other public place. Nor is it a good discription of an opinion that is to be found among the F16 sailors. And I do protest the way it is presented here and in other instances in the past.

I do understand where the core of this myth is to be found. And it points to myself. However I never said or thought that the Stealth F16 was a "... poor relation within the F16 circus ...". things like these have been invented over time since my comments back in 2002 when I wrote that the Stealth is a very good entry level boat. With that comment I refered to the very attractive price of the Stealth F16, which was 11.500 Euro's for a basic boat, in relation to the other classes like the F18's and even the more elaborate fitted and thus more expensive F16's. Afterall, I do consider the F16 class to be an entry level class for cat sailors aspiring to become more serious racers and who later may pass on to truly competitive classes like F18's. Ergo the choice of words "entry level" boats. I am also of the opinion that entry level sailors in any class aren't best served with the more complex and thus more expensive boats in the class, it is just a waste of money if their sailing skills are still so undevelopped. At the time of my comments the only other F16 in the class was the Taipan and that boat costed 16.000 Euro's. In direct comparison with the Taipan the Stealth design was indeed basic. Effective, but basic.

With respect to the "'not so serious racers" part of my comments, I'm not to sure whether I ever presented in that way. I seem to remember that I wrote something along the lines of "serious racers would prefer a more detailed and adjustable boat", which they most definately do. At the time of these writings the Stealth F16 was very basic in its fittings and overall design, while the Taipan was a very elaborately fitted design. For example the Stealth mast rotation system was only an arm, a line and a jam cleat on the boom; you have to come in from the trapeze to adjust it and the jam cleats are commonly regarded as undependable in enduring use. The Taipan for that matter allowed full adjustment from the trapeze and used cam cleats. This is quite honestly a difference that serious racers do consider significant especially singlehanded sailors. And it does differentiate between the Taipan and the Stealth, as was the topic of my post at that time. These comments were made when comparing these two boats directly to eachother. It was not a put-down on the Stealth just a completely honest obvervation.

For some reason some Stealth related persons felt deeply offended by these comments even though the meaning behind these is pretty innocent. As with all designs the stealth has strong points and not so strong points. For some reason you choose to only see my comments of the "not so strong" kind and just pass on my other comments that described the "strong points". And to compound on that, the story has be reinvented to an increasingly more outragious case over the past few years. The truthfullness in it has now long been lost.

To that I now take offense.

Even more so because of my fair dealings with each builder over the years. Stealth sailors shoudln't fool themself that they were the only ones to have heard some critique over the years. Far from it. I remember much more difficult situations involving the Bim design for example. So by any standard, Stealth is not considered to be the ugly little duck in the F16 class and never was. I, nor anybody else, is not out to "get" you. The design and builder is, and always has been, considered a fully respected member of the F16 class.

I hope this clearifies the situation to outsiders and I trust we can put this recurrent theme to rest now.

Wouter

Only because I like facts and not because I think it is in anyway important: Louis/Stark were not the first but the last F16 to finish. See the results at www.hellecat.nl