I went from DINK and a N20 to OIOK and no boat.

If I were OIFK, I could get gub'ment cheese and subsidies for the boat payments.

Here's to social services!

If it was there...sorry - I'm speed reading since being out of touch (on honeymoon) for all of last week and I missed the sarcasm.

I've been called worse :P

For the record, I'm getting married in June, so, that profile is largely true. However I don't watch TV except for sporting events so the effects of advertising are slim to none.

I admit though I do fall for flashy box marketting products from time to time. I can't tell you how many FRAM oil filters I bought before I found out they were rubbish.

AHHH Yes, I am a DIN1K and can, thankfully, afford the gas as can Maug evidently. It is just hard to wave that in the face of people who pay 2-3 times as much for gas.

Look at the posts flood in on this one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just curious. On that side of the pond, what do your service workers drive to their job sites (builders, roofers, plumbers, landscapers, general handyman, etc)?

I drive a ford f150 supercrew. It does get used as my tow vehicle, but the real reason I own it is because I own a number of rental properties that I do maintenance on. I also have a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs and a cabin a few hundred miles away from home. I tried doing the trailer thing for years by always putting a hitch in my audi 4000’s, 200’s and a4’s. I generally put on about 40k miles a year on my vehicle, my wife puts about 10k on hers.

I hated paying for the extra fuel when it’s just me in the car commuting to my day job (70 miles round trip), but the small size of the car when going north, or trying to pull a trailer load of lumber or sheetrock to a rental was just too impractical. I bit the bullet and bought a truck to handle the jobs. It costs me more at the pump, but it saves me time and that’s worth more than the extra I pay at the pump. I always have my “trailer” with me now. Besides, it’s tough to find a snow plow to fit my other vehicle, Audi a6 avant (although it’s certainly more capable in snow than my truck <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).

To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?

ahhahaha You guys have no idea what DINK means?!!? Niether did I at first.
Double, Income, No Kids

And...

One Income, One Kid (OIOK)

One Income, Four Kids (OIFK)... Where's Timbo? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

From the horses' mouth.

I swear I want to pull my hair out by its roots when someone advocates a "sin tax" on gasoline. Its as if these corporations are just going to bite the bullet and say "oh well, I guess we'll absorb theses costs."

Just imagine what your grocery bill would be like to feed a typical family of 4 on top of having to pay for that gas? You think that trucking company is just going to say "well we feel bad for you Mister Grocery store, so here's your usual bill even though we're paying 3 times what we used to for fuel. Have a nice day."

Actually, I'm a SINK, since I'm paying Kate's medical school bills and she has no income at all.

Gas prices should gradually rise to 4-5$ a gallon. Everyone was worried that the economy would "collapse" when gas got above 3$ and it didn't.
Better a gradual rise then BLAM gas hits 7$ a gallon because we are in a battle with China for limited imports.
Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gouging.

Yup, if it costs me more to provide my service, it's going to cost you more to receive my service. That's just the way it is.

As if what the federal government is doing ISN'T price gouging? Even worse, if you decide you don't like the price of your taxes you go to jail! Better yet, what return on investment do I get with the federal government? Unless 100% of it goes to military spending, I'd argue that I get NOTHING out of it. (State taxes are another story, where I get roads and infrastructure)

As for the gas getting "expensive" this last go-round, it was in direct correllation to the price of crude oil. I fail to see how the direct relationship between the price of crude and the price of fuel amounts to "price fixing". Have you stopped to think that maybe the oil companies are just selling more fuel? It IS a very inelastic commodity yaknow.

As for EVIL oil companies, more power to em. Making money hand over fist... so so so EVIL. OHhhh how they should be despised!

Did you forget that when fuel went over 2.50, every shipping company and airline was adding a fuel sur-charge to their invoices?

Do you think that just because there's a luxury tax on fuel, the oil companies are going to quit meeting their profit margin? So, let me get this right... on top of the oil companies margin, you want uncle Sam to take a bigger cut than he already is. I don't understan how that is going to help anything?

Maybe explain the concept to me so I can see the light.

Wandering way off-topic, what is interesting is just how big the cultural difference is between the US and Europe on this point. Cost of petrol here is several times what it is in the US and yet we're talking about further taxing it under the banner of "green taxation". The implications for this for our economy and society are very much the same as for yours (how do you think we shift stuff around?), yet it's now something that UK (and I think most European) voters will now consider. The economy doesn't "collapse", it just adapts to the increased cost.

By European standards, I consider myself an un-green petrol-head (I also own a petrol-hungry and totally unnecessary sports car, which I often drive just for the sake of it), and yet when I visit America I see the level of wasteful consumption as genuinely offensive to my European values.

The fact that MauganN20 will pull his hair out when someone suggests a sin tax on your side of the pond is just a testament to how big the cultural divide is. Over here, it's something that's viewed as increasingly necessary.

I really would like to believe that us Europeans are just a bunch of wet greenies, that the environmentalists have got it wrong and that there really is no problem with our current level of consumption and pollution. But after a few decades of greenie-bashing and denial, consensus over here is increasingly that that's just not the case.

So you are you guys going to "catch-up", or have we really got it all wrong? Time will tell, I guess.

Paul

Ford Transit is standard: http://www.ford.co.uk/ns7/transit/-/tv_intro_4/-/-/-/-

2.2L or 2.4L Diesel engine. These things are quite comfortable doing 90mph on the motorway, which is as fast as I really need my plumber to go...



Sure, if it's done excessively. If it's done more gradually, you find that suppliers such as yourself become more sensitive to how much fuel they use, because that becomes a more significant cost in the service you provide. In order to be competitive, you need to be more efficient.

Paul

Well, I'm admittedly very extreme on the matters of governmental involvement. I'm of the opinion that government should butt out of a lot of things such as welfare, education, healthcare, and "pet projects".



I'm still trying to figure out just how an additional tax on the lifeblood of the American economy is going to help anyone?



The cultural divide here, is not over gasoline. Its over the role of government and its authority to alter an economy. Personally, I'm not willing to give that power to any pencil-necked dweeb in Washington, regardless of his/her party affiliation.

Europeans are generally being taxed at what we consider obscene and downright criminal rates. Unlike the generally socialist nature of Europe, we like having direct control over where our money is spent. Over there, apparently you think that government knows best how to spend your earned income. Over here, government is the LAST place I'd want to put the trust of my money. Adding a tax to something as critical as fuel prices to further an agenda that I think is bogus to begin with isn't something I can exactly stand behind.



You say this as if you believe that socialist style taxation is an evolution of government, whereas I see it as a deficiency. You get offended at our "obscene consumption" well I'm offended at the "obscene elitist attitude" that is drooled down upon us "ignorant" Americans on an almost daily basis.

If one has the money to pay for gas for a car that gets 12 MPG, then there shouldn't be a problem with them paying for the "surcharge" for the extra money companies have to spend to get crap from a-b.
My point is that in order for the sh-- to not REALLY hit the fan (gas jumping from 2$ to 6$) then gas prices should rise, whether oil companies want to take that money or taxes I don't necessarily really care (however, Tad, your wife's income when she is a doc will likely largely come from the federal gov in the form of medicare payments).
Aside from the clear "thread drift" Tad, you said you don't mind the fed gov spending money on defense. My salary is paid by the gov (USAF) but what has the defense department done for you lately? And besides, I'm am not the biggest fan of having to travel all over the world trying to manipulate foreign goverments or killing their citizens in the name of 2-3$ gas.

thanks for saying that better than me <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I watch the Tour de France religiously every year. I’ve noticed in the last two years that people who camped in tents along the route have been replaced by walls of recreation vehicles (I believe they’re called caravans in Europe). Has the price of fuel stabilized or dropped or is the economy doing so good that the fuel expense is no longer a consideration?

So?

I'd rather she be paid by her patients out of their own pockets and privately owned, non-government subsidized insurance companies.

Thats not relevant to this conversation <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



It upholds one of the tenants of the founding documents. I'm paraphrasing here, but...

The government shall collect taxes for the purposes of establishing a common defense and general welfare for the people.

The military also kills people and breaks things that belong to organizations that would kill me if they had the opportunity. Well worth the price of admission in my book.

If I tow a Hobie 20 with a Fort GT, at what speed will the boat and trailer become airborne?