| Re: What do you tow with
[Re: MauganN20]
#88864 11/15/06 08:23 AM 11/15/06 08:23 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | I would think long and hard about getting a VW Passat when I need a new Car
Ancedotal, I know, but my little sister has a 2005 VW Jetta, and its a giant POS. As for efficency, the Diesel Golf can get 72mpg. Thats better than most hybrids. Thankfully the US has updated their diesel laws to allow these kinds of cars into the country soon. (something about the sulfur content in the US Diesel wouldn't work on these cars) US emission standards require a cleaner diesel formulation and cleaner running engines. Car companies are working on this, as are the oil companies. Some of the newer formulations for diesel actually start with natural gas instead of oil. The potential for diesel engines is high (witness Audi at LeMans), and diesel/electric hybrids are another great thing on the horizon. Another problem for diesel passenger cars in America is that a lot of people remember the absolute crap that Detroit put out in the 70's for diesel passenger cars. Fortunately those memories are starting to fade. | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Eric Anderson]
#88865 11/15/06 08:47 AM 11/15/06 08:47 AM |
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 270 Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada Frozen
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270 Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada | Eric
I had a Diesel Rabbit back in 1978 when they first came out in Canada. It got around 60 mpg <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Imperial gallon which is about 20% bigger than an American Gallon)
It was a dog on the highway <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> especially when it had a few miles on it. It would smoke like crazy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> when accelerating to pass on the highway. I cannot imagine getting it up to even 150 KPH (93 mph)
Had a few wierd problems. When condensation formed on the windows it would drip down to the fuse panel and eventually it would corrode the steel fuse posts and then the corrosion would run and short out the next fuse item which would create interesting "ghost in the Machine" sort of stuff. You'd be driving along when suddenly the horn would blast for awhile and then the wipers would dance for awhile. Apparently some people had the starter operate while the car was parked in gear with disasterous results.
Then one day I had happen what I had read about. I was cruising down the highway when it started to accelerate on it's own. The family was aboard and I was confused about what was happening. I took my foot off of the pedal but it was on auto-accelerate. I then put the brake on but it was determined to accelerate to destruction and I had to press very firmly on the brake to get it to stop. Had I not done this I would have had a diesel bomb. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
You see what was happening was that the extremely high compression ratio in the engine (and other reasons) had damaged the rings. This allowed the pressure from combustion to blow by and theoretically this should vent out the crankcase vent to the atmosphere. But the crankcase was vented to the intake to keep emissions down and when you got the right conditions the frothing oil in the crankcase vented out the crank vent into the engine. So now since diesels run on oil, it didn't need the accelerator to get fuel. Voila, Rabbit Cleared for Take off.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
They no doubt fixed the fuse problems as they probably got sued, but the other problem I have not heard of since.
Cheers Alan F
Tiger
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#88866 11/15/06 08:54 AM 11/15/06 08:54 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Didn't the old VW Rabbit diesel get about 45 mpg? I drove one a few times in the late 80's and it was a no-frills little zippy car. Of course, this was compared to my "Big Daddy Mac" Chevy Chevette.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> A co-worker of mine owned a 1979 model Rabbit diesel. He commuted 52 miles, each way, and used exactly 2 gallons per day. He was by no means a lead foot. It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Frozen]
#88867 11/15/06 08:54 AM 11/15/06 08:54 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921 Michigan | Eric
I had a Diesel Rabbit back in 1978 when they first came out in Canada. It got around 60 mpg <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Imperial gallon which is about 20% bigger than an American Gallon)
It was a dog on the highway <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> especially when it had a few miles on it. It would smoke like crazy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> when accelerating to pass on the highway. I cannot imagine getting it up to even 150 KPH (93 mph)
Had a few wierd problems. When condensation formed on the windows it would drip down to the fuse panel and eventually it would corrode the steel fuse posts and then the corrosion would run and short out the next fuse item which would create interesting "ghost in the Machine" sort of stuff. You'd be driving along when suddenly the horn would blast for awhile and then the wipers would dance for awhile. Apparently some people had the starter operate while the car was parked in gear with disasterous results.
Then one day I had happen what I had read about. I was cruising down the highway when it started to accelerate on it's own. The family was aboard and I was confused about what was happening. I took my foot off of the pedal but it was on auto-accelerate. I then put the brake on but it was determined to accelerate to destruction and I had to press very firmly on the brake to get it to stop. Had I not done this I would have had a diesel bomb. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
You see what was happening was that the extremely high compression ratio in the engine (and other reasons) had damaged the rings. This allowed the pressure from combustion to blow by and theoretically this should vent out the crankcase vent to the atmosphere. But the crankcase was vented to the intake to keep emissions down and when you got the right conditions the frothing oil in the crankcase vented out the crank vent into the engine. So now since diesels run on oil, it didn't need the accelerator to get fuel. Voila, Rabbit Cleared for Take off.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
They no doubt fixed the fuse problems as they probably got sued, but the other problem I have not heard of since. I learned about that problem figuring out the diesel engine in my old Catalina 27. Supposedly the only way to stop the engine when it runs away like that is to clog the air intake. Never did "run away" though... | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: _flatlander_]
#88868 11/15/06 09:38 AM 11/15/06 09:38 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed. But it really hasn't. They're still building the same cars and the domestic manufacturers openly admit that they failed to recognize the demand for smaller, more fuel efficient, cars and they really don't have any attractive models in this area. There are really few attractive options if you want a car that can do better than 40mpg. Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Jake]
#88869 11/15/06 09:56 AM 11/15/06 09:56 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed. But it really hasn't. They're still building the same cars and the domestic manufacturers openly admit that they failed to recognize the demand for smaller, more fuel efficient, cars and they really don't have any attractive models in this area. There are really few attractive options if you want a car that can do better than 40mpg. Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings. I would guess that is because it is cheaper to add "assumed" value to their products through the power of advertising than by R&D. How many Ford, Chevy and Chrysler commercials do you see compared to Honda and Toyota? There is a reason car companies spend so much money on advertising. | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: fin.]
#88870 11/15/06 10:09 AM 11/15/06 10:09 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Bloomington, IN jbecker
member
|
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105 Bloomington, IN | Interesting article. While debunking peak oil they claim that oil production will peak in 20-25 years! Seems like the only difference between the authors and the strawman theory that they are debunking is the date of the peak. Another look at the CERA study: Congressional peak oil caucus responds to CERA studySmaller vehicles do just fine towing beach cats. I have had no trouble with crosswinds or braking with my old Subaru wagon. The four wheel drive helps a bunch in marginal conditions, and I tend to run wider tires than stock which also helps. You lose more in highway mileage than a big vehicle because the boat sticks out into the airstream more. With a big truck, the boat is mostly in the wind shadow of the truck.
Jeff Tiger 849
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Jake]
#88871 11/15/06 10:13 AM 11/15/06 10:13 AM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 248 Colorado SteveT
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248 Colorado | Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings. And you can't tow with them without killing the mileage. I'm looking forward to the day that smaller diesel trucks are available in the U.S. The better torque from the diesel and increased overall performance from turbo makes them an excellent overall choice. In addition, bio-diesel fuels are a great option as an interim alternative to gas while the world comes up with something even better. I've burned bio-diesel in my truck and felt no noticable change in performance and it even smells a little better.
H-20 #896
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: SteveT]
#88872 11/15/06 10:49 AM 11/15/06 10:49 AM |
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 545 Brighton, UK grob
addict
|
addict
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545 Brighton, UK | I've burned bio-diesel in my truck and felt no noticable change in performance and it even smells a little better. mmm smells like chips <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, Here in the UK many people illegelly run there diesel cars on chip fat bought from the local supermarket, this "fuel" does not suffer from the high tax associated with the stuff that comes from the pumps. This has become such a problem that supermarkets were asked to report people buying large quantities of cooking oil. Do the sails move in unison? They look like windsurfer rigs. Yes they are windsurfing sails and they can move indepentantly. Gareth | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: jbecker]
#88873 11/15/06 10:49 AM 11/15/06 10:49 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | This is sort of the opposite of towing behind a small car where the hulls stick out into the airstream behind the small vehicle. But possibly the end result is the same. And I think it is relevant to the topic.
I think I mentioned this a long time ago on a similar thread about towing, but here goes again.
Rick and I have towed many thousands of miles using a motorhome -- all over the United States, Mexico and Canada.
Towing behind motorhomes can be a big problem because of all the turbulence coming off the flat back of the motorhome. We have so far broken two trailer tongues towing cats behind a motorhome. In both cases the trailers had long, straight tongues without triangulated stiffening arms, and I think this is an important factor.
The turbulence behind the motorhome would cause the trailer to oscillate back and forth and eventually break the tongue.
The scary thing about it is that the tongue breaks behind where the chains hold the trailer to the vehicle. So when the tongue breaks, the trailer is on its own.
That's why I am thinking that maybe those "Airtabs" would work on the back of a motorhome to decrease the turbulence for the trailer. | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Mary]
#88875 11/15/06 11:05 AM 11/15/06 11:05 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... hobie1616
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... | Towing behind motorhomes can be a big problem because of all the turbulence coming off the flat back of the motorhome. We have so far broken two trailer tongues towing cats behind a motorhome. In both cases the trailers had long, straight tongues without triangulated stiffening arms, and I think this is an important factor.
The turbulence behind the motorhme would cause the trailer to oscillate back and forth and eventually break the tongue.
The scary thing about it is that the tongue breaks behind where the chains hold the trailer to the vehicle. So when the tongue breaks, the trailer is on its own.
That's why I am thinking that maybe those "Airtabs" would work on the back of a motorhome to decrease the turbulence for the trailer. Turbulence may be only part of the problem. You should also look at weight distribution on the trailers. Try moving the center of gravity forward or backwards to see if the oscillations change in frequency or stop. You may also want to look at moving the axle on the trailer. If you do decide to modify the air flow you may want to consider a solid mud flap type panel or even one of those broom things that extend across the back of the RV below the rear bumper. That should reduce or eliminate air coming up off the rear of the RV and lifting the trailer. US Sail Level 2 Instructor US Sail Level 3 Coach | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Mary]
#88877 11/15/06 11:34 AM 11/15/06 11:34 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 321 Albuquerque NM Banzilla
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321 Albuquerque NM | Sorry. I did not want to hijack this thread, because it is not about trailering; it is about what vehicle you tow with. I was just interjecting the motorhome into it as a tow vehicle and some of the safety problems related to towing with a motorhome. Strange, I thought it was about global oohh wait, never mind.
[b] Sail Like you have a Pair
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Banzilla]
#88879 11/15/06 11:53 AM 11/15/06 11:53 AM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO hobienick
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO | When looking for a tow vehicle, as mentioned by other, small cars are fine for beach cats. Major things to consider are the maximum GVW for the car and manual vs. auto tranny.
The GVW will indicate the ability of the car to stop the weight of itself and the trailer. A 5 passenger car full of people and baggage has to stop about the same weight as a 5 passenger car with only the driver and a medium sized beach cat.
Transmissions. I like manuals on cars for towing as I do not worry about overheating them as much as I would with an auto. With the auto you are constantly demanding more power for the extra weight which heats up the oil faster. And, you are probably going to be shifting gears quite often which wears out the tranny much faster. You also have more positive control with the manual.
Just my 2 cents.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
| | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: Mary]
#88881 11/15/06 12:25 PM 11/15/06 12:25 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Mary - the trailer occilations behind the motor home are caused by vortex shedding in the slipstream behind the motorhome. A cool movie of the flow behind a square body (=motorhome) can be found here. Aluminum trailers are particularly susceptible because, in addition to being light, they are flexible. When the tongue flexes too much, too many times, it breaks from fatigue. The cure is to make the tongue stiffer. Trailex has done this over the years, but I attach my sailbox to the toungue, making it a structual part of the trailer to help stiffen it up. | | | Re: What do you tow with
[Re: mbounds]
#88882 11/15/06 12:34 PM 11/15/06 12:34 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Mary - the trailer occilations behind the motor home are caused by vortex shedding in the slipstream behind the motorhome. A cool movie of the flow behind a square body (=motorhome) can be found here. Aluminum trailers are particularly susceptible because, in addition to being light, they are flexible. When the tongue flexes too much, too many times, it breaks from fatigue. The cure is to make the tongue stiffer. Trailex has done this over the years, but I attach my sailbox to the tougue, making it a structual part of the trailer to help stiffen it up. I guess you are saying what I was saying, except you said it in a lot fewer words. Thanks. | | |
|
0 registered members (),
161
guests, and 77
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,059 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |