I can go along with that!


Clayton

It is not what one knows or what one knows one does not know but WHAT ONE DOES NOT KNOW ONE DOES NOT KNOW that is important. The people who thought the World was flat did not know they did not know it was roundish.

was that intuitive or intrusive.
What is an avitar?
Just kdding I have a friend caught up in Avitar. She has told me...and told me...and told me.

We are dealing with people who do not think past their low self esteem, huge ego and gread. To open their minds and reevaluate who they are and what they belive to be true is a tough task with them facing what would be called a "rock bottom". This would be something like a bigger version of "Katrina". It would have to happen in their back yard, pick up their SUV and throw it into the next county, leaving them standing in nothing but their underpants.

Save you breath and sail. Remember, we all know that is cool and it is our similarities that can bind us..

Geeeeeeeeez, I recognise this <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It's Friday Night in NZ <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Okay, so global warming is going to cause an ice age, which means I don't have to worry about whether my house in the Keys is going to be under water?

So is it global COOLING that is going to cause everything to melt and cause the water level to rise in the ocean?

I am totally confused. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Intrusive. I aen't spel sew gudd.

If it weren't for the media and politician's, global changes like this would go unnoticed, other than comments like "the last few winters have been pretty mild". I live in the middle of a continent so wild weather is the norm. its 60 today, 3 weeks ago we had two feet of snow on the ground, a month before that it didn't get above zero for almost a month. Thats cold. Weather is complex, and so many things sculpt it in to what it was, is, and is going to be. There is a rebuttal for every circumstance. Warmer temps mean more water vapor in the atmosphere causing a higher albido (not libido) reflecting more of the sun's energy back into space. There are literaly thousands of scenarios that are that simple. Watch the news tonight, watch the weather forecast for tomorrow and tell me how close it is. The people doing the weather are scientists. They can't tell you with much accuracy whats going to happen in the next 24 hrs much less the next twenty years.

Saturday Morning. It is 20 froom the SouEast and my sail is having a birthday with the sailmaker. Can't get onto the water until Tuesday.... So I am hear writing....wishing...

I was just thinking "those intrusive little penguins"..

I aggree that some events..like Katrina..might just have been a big unhappy time thing....bad weather has always happened and people did say the levies were not going to hold.

But overall temps do seem to be going up.

Conspiracy people I know ask what happened to the plane that hit the pentagon...when they do I ask what happened to the plane that took off that day with peoples loved ones in it and was tracked on radar untill half a K from the pentagon and then disappeared.
I am very left wing but to knowingly defend such wicked nonsense is not helpful.

Lady Di was murdered... That's how I would assasinate someone. I would get in a tiny white Fiat, somehow make sure the driver of the Giant speeding Merc was drunk and then run it off the road....in my tiny white fiat. I had been planning that idea for months.

We live in a World where common sense and truth do run run parrellel with making money. While money remains how we attempt to find happiness and virtue and self we will live in a World where Anna Nicole is thought of as beautiful... I just don't think that greed and panic which are how the West runs its civilisation, if you can all it that, will clear the muddy waters of global warming in any way.

Global Warming and carbon credits are the next big rip off of the masses. They are looking right now for where they will put the drip into us all and start the blood flowing.

We don't register our boats here. We don't have boat licences of any sort. When I am on the water I am entirely my own man and I love that my boat and the wind and the water represent real and present truth and self reliance.

With their lies and mendacity our leaders destroy our love of our fellows and we fall into a dark place of fear and cunfusion. Fear and confusion make us easy to manipulate. The corruption of truth starts at the top.

Well put. I can change the penguins back to something a little less violent if there are any sensitive types out there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I said it once and I'll say it again...........

GLOBAL WARMING = FAD

Go sailing. Do something besides bang on a stupid keyboard. Go kiss the Weather Channel girl <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and punch Al Gore in the nose <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. It doesn't matter what you think <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. "Mother Nature" doesn't care that you exist <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. We all will be long passed before anything global happens again.

HA! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

typical example of a BS argument applied to confuse uneducated people :



Methane is a burnable gaz and as such will not be emitted by any significant quantities by internal combustion engines as, of course, those will BURN the gas before it gets to the exhaust.

Fossil fuels predominantly exhaust CO2 which, together with methane, is one of those greenhouse gases. In affect both cows and cars produce quantities of green house gases but only of different kinds.

With uneducatedness like this going around, any scientific discussion with the larger populace is useless. And any easy to understand "science" will get thrown out because the people who don't understand any more complex will quote some scientifics who says that it is "fast and loose"

Nice situation to be in.

Wouter

An average, yes !




On antartica it is even several miles thick. During the last ice age the ice sheet on top of New York was an mile high.

1698 feet is less then 1/3rd of a mile, not a biggy in glacier terms.



No, it wouldn't. These planes are not that large compared to the total surface area of todays oceans. Alot of shoreline is pretty vertical when looking at 20 feet or less sea level rise.




This expansion ratio of ice is less then 10% and that is why a iceberg is only showing 10% of its mass above the surface. 10% on 1608 feet is only 160 feet which is peanuts when it comes to permanent icesheet. Again the icesheets on antartical can be several miles thick.



Radius of the earth is roughly 6300 km, 20 feet = 6 mtr and so the increase in surface area due to the spherical nature of the eath when sea level rises 20 feet is :

0.000000000000000086384 % (= 8.6384e-17 % for scientifically schooled people)

I would call this effect totally negligiable.




Here you are.

Wouter

I'm with you, Bob. FAD.

I watched Al Gore's movie and I read Michael Creighton's book (State of Fear, the other side of the debate) and what I got out of the movie was, it's already too late. If this is real, we are at least 20-30 years behind the curve in developing alternative fuels, and I see no real changes in how we live our lives (burning oil for electricity, transportation, heating, etc.) of the size and nature that would make a difference, being promoted or legislated.

The fact is that our politicians need lots of money to get elected. The fact is that the Oil companies have lots of money, and will only back any politician who will see things -their way-. Unless politicians pass laws that madate a change to the way we live, nothing will change. In America, we have the best Politicians money can buy.

You and I can "Go Green" but what are we, less than 1% of the world's population? So how are we going to fix it when we have to deal with the other 99% of the population, around the world? (I'm thinking of China, India, etc.)

So what I got out of Al's movie was, it's too late and Big Oil won't cut their own throats to change the way we live.

Do you think the Big Oil lobby is going to allow any politician to favor Wind or Solar energy, both of which would provide FREE Energy to the consumer, after the initial purchase of equipment? NO WAY! Follow the money. The money is in Oil.

hi i am not having a go at you in particular but you say we are only responsible for 1% of the worlds polution but the US is responsible for about 1/4 it, china and india just want the wealth we have but we need to lead the way.
As low carbon tecnologies exist we need to invest massively in them they will become more effichant and no one will want to build coal fired power stations or eventialy drive smelly petrol cars, at that stage maybe we will have developed effective carbon sinks and we can can stop this, the chinese know how bad this is as the desart is getting closer and closer to bejing so, let us show them the way on this

with you on this.

I live in the wops with my own water and sewage etc and it is great NOT paying those blood suckers EVERY month for what a little enginuity can provide for free.

My partner is Chinese. I have spent time in China with her well educated, very hard working young nieces and nephews. They have all of the latest gadgets and will be wealthy. It is too late to take up a leadership roll with them. They have no respect for Western leadership and look to outstrip the West not follow.

Intresting comments about China. I worked with a woman that was an expat in Japan. She said they're still fighting the war but they're using economic instead of fire power.

Boy did you put words in my mouth! Where exactly did I say "WE" were only "responsible" for 1% of Global Warming??

What I MEANT by WE, is onl the Catsailors reading this board. WE Are NOT EVEN 1% of the entire population of the free world, so any effecy you and I will have, vs. China and India, and yes, the rest of the USA and Europe, will be little to none. And my POINT is, unless WE elect politicians who see it as a real problem and have a plan to fix it, nothing will change. BUT the big money Oil Lobby is not going to let that happen.

What about that most of the ice is so far north though? 2 degrees can't effect much above/below a certain latitude when it 40 below all winter long, and a steamy 10 degrees in the summer.

The easiest way for all of this to come to an end is for some nut job to let loose a virus that kills off 99.99% of the population. No more pollution, (except rotting corpses all that methane again), no need for large agri-business to feed the planet. No more companies dumping toxic waste into rivers. No war for at least a few years. No more anything. How far back do you suppose that would take the population to. 10,000 years? Just wondering, would that be a adequate solution? or a bit too extreme? Once you get over the everyone dying thing it would do an effective job.

Didn't that cows emiting methane thing come from the UN?