need some info on learning to sail in open ocean

Question: Do you start off the beach in surf or are you sailing out of an inlet or from behind a breakwater ? This is important for getting off the beach with a limited timeslot between sets of breakers.

thanks Out of the Blue, i start from a protected beach, that has anywhere from 1 foot waves to 3 foot waves deppending on the swell running , but also have a lot of swimmers on 3/4rs of the beach. and a prodomiminently onshore facing breeze most days

I should have read your location (Anglesea) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Since you start from a protected area then getting started off the beach shouldn't be an issue. Be completely ready to launch (no last minute panicks). Wait for a lull in the sets of waves for some flat water and go for it. Just remember to keep the traveller set about half way out so that you don't luff into the wind and waves. Once you have a rudder and centreboard down and some speed then you can think about re-setting the traveller and pointing higher.

If you have already sailed catamarans and are looking to improve your performance when broad reaching or running always try to sail downhill (never sail into the back of waves). Travel along the trough until you see an opening then go through it. There will always be an opening somewhere along the wave. Sailing into the back of waves is just like putting the brakes on. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sailing into the waves also requires a bit of skill. Luff into a breaking wave face so that you don't get knocked sideways then bear away once over the back of it to get speed back up.

Coming back to the beach make sure that both centre boards are removed from the cases and secured on the trampoline. Raise one rudder so you only have to think about one item. As you get close to shore raise that rudder and turn into the wind. Back the Mozzie into shallow water and get it up the beach as fast as you can (assuming that you have 1m beach swells nad breaking waves).

Hope this helps.

Peter

Thanks peter for your valuable info, i have never sailed cats before so i guess there might just be a few of those last minute panicks,but i am keen to learn and i thankyou for your time explaining the ins and outs. And thanks for the tip on how to run through the swells. If your good self or anyone else knows where to get some cheap sails from ,even 2nd hand in decent condition, would be keen to contact them. Brett Leighton

Corsair 2

Brett,

If you've never sailed a catamaran before there are a few more things you need to know:

1. When you are tacking you need to have plenty of speed then gently push the tiller and let the yacht go through the eye of the wind. Don't wildly push the tiller as it will act as a brake and you will loose speed rapidly and probably end up in irons. When you are in irons the yacht starts to reverse you will have to use the rudders to back it around.

2. When the yacht has started to go through the eye of the wind throw the tiller extension out the back of the boat climb across the trampoline then retrieve it so that you have control again.

3. When you have gone through the eye of the wind let the mainsheet go so that the mainsail ends up at quite an angle to the hulls. You will have enough to do collecting the tiller extension from the water, repositioning yourself and figuring out where you should be heading and pointing the rudders in the same direction. Once you have done all that, you can just pull the mainsheet on and the yacht will just start to go forward.

Naturally you'll need to do all this on a calm day with a gentle breeze so the learning experience can be a pleasure. The more experience you get the more natural it will seeem.

Sail settings are a bit more advanced so just have fun with one setting in the beginning. You should be able to purchase some good catamaran sailing books which will give you alot more info.

Happy sailing.

Peter

p.s. Will you sail cat rigged or sloop rigged ?

Brett,

http://www.boatbooks-aust.com.au/indexcatalouge.php?cPath=21_68&pic=Y
Try this link to see what books are readily available.

Regards,

Peter

Peter, thanks again for the advice,it will be priceless to me. To answer your last question on cat or sloop i would imagine that 1 sail might be enough for starters (maybe just the jib) ha ha , but seriously will try cat rigged and see how that feels ,I was hoping to teach my son 16,daughter 12 as we go ,would you suggest this to be a good thing ?, also i am keen to sail solo but am a little hesitant to do so until i learn how to right a inverted yacht correctly so my dilemma is do i take out my son and have two people onboard that are out of control. i have done some twilight classes at the royal geelong yacht club just recently in 4.3 fibreglass dinghy's that were fairly quick and a bit of a handfull in 20knts with gusts,and we ended up wet,only once though. Anyway hope im not boring you to much , do you think i should try in a lake first or just go for it and learn quickly, i have many years experience in surfing ,but would like some opinion on this please. And thanks again for the link on the books, Think i will purchase the start to finish one unless there is a better one for me at this time. I am still at repainting stage and havent had the mast up yet so i will be learning a lot about how to do that in the next week or 2. Thanks again Brett

Corsair 2

Corsair,
Did you just say that you sail at RGYC, i sail there aswell and have just bought a hobie 17, so i'll be down there training over christmas.

Tom

Good for you Tom, I hope you are happy with the Hobie17.

Why didn't you buy a Mosquito? Did you test sail a Mosquito? If so, how did the Mozzy compare to the H17?
Did availablity of second hand boats affect your decision?

Just curious Tom, your answers could help the class and other potential newcomers.

Darryn

Didnt buy a mossie because of a couple of things,

There is a bit bigger of a class around geelong. I can take it to torquay or anglesea and sail it there with others. More seaworthy compared to the mossie's. I sailed one in South africa near cape town fogot name though and was great for flat water, but never tried it in seas as i was on a lake.

Availability was a factor aswell, there was nothing really what i was looking for avaliable. I was a little late i know, should have gotten in earlier, but i was in NZ at the end of November and the boat i was about to buy sold.

This i found by accident looking for a mossie, i rang a dealer who i was told had a good mossie for sale for around 5000(Not the guy you guys gave me), and he gave me pro's and cons of the two boats as well as the A-class. Then gave me the number for a guy who just recived a new 17 from him and was about to sell his old one.

Speed differences wasn't a problem for me as im fine racing any thing faster then a laser, the diffrance is only 2 points so it isnt that much. Mossie in South Africa did point a little lower then the 17 though, this is probably because of the bigger hull area and larger centerboards.

Price wise it was only $300 more so i really didnt care spending the diffrence as it was still in my price range

So i have ended up with a 2000 H17 and am taking delivery tomorrow morning then sailing a fair bit out of RGYC and around the area.

So if anyone in the area will be sailing at RGYC i'll be there for some training. And also if any one is thinking of doing the Indented head christmas regatta i'll see you down there.

G'day Corsair 2,

My 5 cents worth is that if you haven't sailed the mozzie yet and are learning to sail you'd be better starting on flatter water i.e. a lake or Corio Bay would be good.

This will allow you to learn the basics and get a feel for the boat before tackling the open sea. Things can go pear shaped pretty quickly on the open sea as you don't have the breathing space that you do on flat water. On flat water you can just slow down and think about what you're doing if you need to.

Corio Bay also has a bit of boating traffic and if you get into difficulty there'll be someone to help you should you need it. Watch out for the ships though. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Far better to build your confidence slowly than having a profoundly bad experence that puts you off sailing the boat again.

Enjoy your new mozzie. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

G'day Col, thankyou for your opinion, i am sort of leaning that way for all the reasons you just described, and it does make sense to me . Also where can i get my hands on some newer pulley systems for the traveller and some other worn-out looking rollers , any advice would be much appreciated. Brett
Corsair 2

Corsair 2
Can you give us a little more info on what you are looking for?
Traveller car or the main sheet system. If it is the traveller car what type? I-beam track with the 4 wheel car or the flat track with the ball type car. Also can someone tell me if the Indented Haed regatta is on before or after christmas.
Peter

Brett,

The reason I bought a Mozzie was because it could be sailed either 2 upor solo. In fact the only reason for the initial purchase was so that I could go sailing with my son and daughter. If I ventured out without them I was seen as selfish!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The very first time we went out a Mirror sailed around us. Now that's really embarassing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Mind you there were 3 of us on board.

So my suggestion that to keep in the good books and get some extra brownie points is that you take the kids out. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mid morning is usually a good time so that you don't have too much of a sea breeze. As Col said earlier try it in a lake or bay; Portarlington comes to mind because it is usually pretty flat water and you can reach up and down the coast (within reason).

As for sailing with or without a jib, the jib will allow you to tack easier because you can keep it sheeted until you are well through the eye of the wind. It will actually help pull the bows around and therefore is more forgiving of your learning stuffups. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> It will also give your kids some responsibility on board rather than just going for the ride. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Peter

p.s. wear an old wetsuit to avoid rashes and bruises from scrambling about on the trampoline and bumping into fittings.

G'day Peter, sorry just getting my head around the terminoligy of everything ,slowly all sinking in . As i said i haven't been able to raise the mast as i am still painting , so the traveller is an I track with the 4 wheel car,its the little white rollers on the top, one is perished an other is rather sad, also the main sheet pulleys are chipped around there edges, there is also another set (in the trailer box) that im not sure where they go at this time, I am fairly aware that im up for some newer ones,and all the sheets,halyards are looking tired also. Mate i'm just fishing around to see if anyone has these types of items that there not using anymore ,have updated,ect and would like to sell them to me.Thanks for your in put . Regards Brett
Corsair 2

Brett,
You don't have to replace the traveller car. You can buy the little white pullies from most Yacht shops. As for the second set of block in the trailer they may be Jib blocks. We are going down the Summers Boxing day regatta, if you get a chance to get across with or without your boat please do and we are happy to help you set your boat up.

Peter

Brett,

Most of us who update our fittings do so because the old ones have worn out or we have seen a better system and keep the old bits as spares just in case. It's probably better to buy new fittings if you have to. Ronstan have a good selection per the link below:

http://www.ronstan.com/marine/

Ronstan fittings are sold at most yacht chandlers.

Before you go off and buy new fittings make sure that you really need to. When you rig it up for the first time in the back yard make sure that everything works properly and can take all the stresses applied through the sheeting systems.

As for mainsails you can probably get a pretty good (competitive) 2nd hand sail for around the $700 mark through the VMCA website. New sails are around $1500. If you're really desperate I have a really old one with battens that hasn't been used for a few seasons. I'll get it out next time I'm down at Somers if you're interested.

Regards,

Peter

You will have heaps of fun on a mossie Brett. I came from the 470 class to the mossie and finding it alot more enjoyable and competative.
This is one class I wont be leaving for a long time and hopefully we can see you up here in NSW competing in some of our regatta's
cheers
William

G'day to all,happy new year and hope the berocca's are doing there job. As some of you are aware i have been restoring a timber mozzie and have finally finished painting her hulls. So finally had a chance to fit my mast,slightly daunting task in itself. So having set the mast out on the driveway and detangled i have found that there are 3 stainless wires for each side. 2 thicker guage with d shackles (shrouds),2 thinner wires with pulley adjustments and 2 with what looks like a bit, with a circle at each end . And a thicker guage wire i am asuming is the forestay. All looks good in theory,until we hoisted the mast. I have found that the shrouds went on nicely and pulled the mast up and slotted the base of the mast into it's seat(from rear to front) of boat. But found the forestay fell well short of (4-5 inches)to the connection of wires at the front.
Q:1 Am i hoisting the mast correctly, laying it aft of the boat.?
Q:2 the 2 thinner guage wires off both sides, one adjustable i asume to be a trapeze wire,but could be way off the mark here.The other wire with the 0--0 type end on it i have no idea where to connect it to. So after you all have laughed your heads off. Could someone please slap me a little and try and run me through the correct procedure on how to hoist the mast. Any advice would be appreciated. Regards to all and stay safe over the holiday period. Brett
Corsair 2