What about the CFR as the next 20 footer? Makes sense, being developed and is lightweight

Rolf,
I've been out of the loop for some time with a PC melt down and I'm just going through old posts and found this one.
I think you are right on the mark.
Sure when it's blowing dogs off chains the wider beam is handy but how often do we sail in those conditions compared to conditions under 15 knots where the difference is likely to be balanced out by the slower tacking of a wider platform. Then look at the amount of time you sail lighter winds where lifting the windward hull becomes an advantage due to the reduction in wetted surface and corresponding reduction in drag.
It's worth trialling a 10ft beam on a modern hull shape.
The desigbn could have two jib options. A self tacker for bouy racing and larger overlapping jib for distance stuff.
Designing a platform to take a standard T rig makes good sense and is in fact a part of my plan with the additional jib option for distance stuff.
However I think to build such a boat in commercial numbers it will probably have to have an 8 ft beam.
When trying to appeal to larger numbers you can't beat convenience.

Just the way I see it.

Regards,
Phill

Your computer also failed? It must have been to hot "down under" this summer as Marcus also had some computer trouble. Overheated harddrive? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I dont think there is any chance of a commercial operation betting good money on a new 20 footer at a reasonable cost before before there are some homebuildt prototypes and interest. What is needed is someone to get busy in their garages, build a boat and form a class. The basic platform parameters are pretty clear and discussed to death earlier.. Come to think about it, the F20Super and the F12 have a lot in common, but I think both classes will see prototypes and some interest.

About the strip-plank project we have discussed.. I am about ready.

Rolf,

The motherboard died in my lap top.
After a very long time they elected to replace the lap top rather than fix/replace the motherboard.

I agree about getting a prototype on the water.
Hopefully the 3rd quarter this year or 1st next should see a prototype sailing.

Regards,
Phill

Hey Matos,

That was probably Mike Phillips and his Marstrom 20...

Lambert's old M20 or another one?

Lambert and Livingston were sailing a white CFR 20.

Hey, what would a wing mast do on the N20?

Besides violate the SMOD regulations....

This years MKL winner!

Ha...

I laughed at the post of the big Garfield..

Does Mike Phillips live in Homestead, Fl?

Does he need a crew member, 180lbs? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, he lives in Homestead. As far as crew goes, I don't really know. He is a great sailor and very competative.

The M20 and CFR would be a start to a F20HT class possibly... but you would have to standardize widths. I think they have talked a/b making the CFR's wider, but I don't know if/where that has gone.

Will,

Do you know the weight of the M20 AND CFR20?

M20 sloop rig 120kg?

CFR 20?

Regards,
Phill

They were both roughly the same with the CFR being a bit heavier. I would say they are very close now since they changed the masts on the CFR. 120 kg would not be a bad guess, but they are both uni's not sloops.

Really, there are three boats out there that could kick a 20ht class off, nobody mentioned the Eagle Carbon. I think I heard a rumor way back that Vector was doing a 20, but that's old info and may have died a long time ago.

In my mind, I've wondered where the 20 ft'ers are going to go from their current state with the I20 being the fastest/most popular ride out there. An F20 would be great, but that would mean somebody else has to build one. F20"ht" might be more viable as hulls are out there from more than one builder now.

I think M Murray would be there in a heartbeat if a 20HT class took off. I would still want something to singlehand though.

So, after a discussion I had on the phone today... what about a F20ht class? The 20's don't seem to have a lot of the same problems the 18ht's had... Thoughts? feelings?

Design envelope for a F20ht class? I am in for a homebuilt 20 footer, but not down to the weight of a M20 or similar.

We have discussed this before on this group, ad nauseam. There is interest, but not many willing to commit before there is some activity. If you want a class to grow, consider cost and ease of use (e.g. legal trailering width, glued beams etc.).

To grow a new class from infancy I think you need a very strong manufacturers support or a homebuilding option. A combination is best, like what the F-16s did.

I think people are finding out now how hard it is to start a new sailing class.

Wouter

Yup!

The necessary combination of dedication, sparkplugs, prototypes and hype are not present yet. But just you wait, it will happen <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />