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Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: scooby_simon] #99769
03/06/07 05:58 AM
03/06/07 05:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Simon,
I don't think 4 and 5 are relevant, because they would affect the whole fleet in the same way.

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Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: Mary] #99770
03/06/07 06:28 AM
03/06/07 06:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
sailwave Offline
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Gower, Wales, UK
At the risk of generalising too much, I think whatever race and series scoring system we use (and there are infinite variations) the same sailors will win because they will sail in a style to maximise ther chances based on the peculiarities of the system; but this is scoring forcing style, which is not good, surely? So what style of (not necessarily fleet) racing do we want to see at the various levels of the sport and what is the ideal scoring system to accommodate each; and how much should the style/scoring we would like to see be compromised by the race officals natural tendancy to want to keep both simple and consistent...?

Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: Timbo] #99771
03/06/07 04:54 PM
03/06/07 04:54 PM
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Posts: 49
M
Mark L Offline
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Mark L  Offline
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Posts: 49
Quote
OK, How about we score it like Figure Skating, throw out both one low AND one high score? After all, the high score might have been due to pure luck, a flyer to the corner, lucky wind shift, etc. while the other faster guys went to the wrong side of the course.



In a low point scoring system, just throwing out
the best finish along with the worst only further
rewards bad sailing. Throwing out the best and the
worst only works if you average the scores.

Can of worms, that.

Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: Mary] #99772
03/06/07 05:43 PM
03/06/07 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
Simon,
I don't think 4 and 5 are relevant, because they would affect the whole fleet in the same way.


No, it hits the front of the fleet harder (or the chancer who gets OCS more than once)

counting say 50(OCS) in a 1,2,1,2,3,4,1 series is a lot worse than counting a 50 in 44,45,46,46,47,45,40

it would make the front of the fleet more carefull/more risk averse as the OCS is REAL bad news.

This also means that the "sailing people over their discard" tactic just becomes a "sail the boat OCS" tactic.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: scooby_simon] #99773
03/06/07 07:39 PM
03/06/07 07:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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ncik  Offline
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
After a bad result you can still win if other competitors get bad results too. It is fair for everyone. Noone will pack-up and go home after an OCS in the first race.

This isn't the point of my post...

From a pure scoring point of view, it is fairer than the current system for everyone because generally the standard deviation of your remaining results (after drops) will be less than the standard deviation of your remaining results after only dropping the bottom results...generally speaking.

The results that remain after dropping off the extreme top and bottom placings will more likely be closer to your standard place in the fleet...hence it is more fair.

Just have a look at your previous regatta, try scoring by dropping off the top and bottom results (careful with winners that don't compete in the last race). You will notice that the remaining results will likely be closer to your final place.

A fairer system doesn't necessarily mean a better system though.

Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: ncik] #99774
03/08/07 05:35 PM
03/08/07 05:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
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I shouldn't of used the term "standard deviation", I don't think it's the correct use of it.

Re: Throw out Throw Outs? [Re: RickWhite] #99775
03/09/07 08:24 AM
03/09/07 08:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10
Sydney
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WallyG Offline
stranger
WallyG  Offline
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Posts: 10
Sydney
Quote
Seems to me the person that sails the most consistantly should win.


It seems to me that obviously Bundy was the most consistant going into the last race..thats why the situation developed as he had a better drop race..and a better net score all be it only 1 point.

I reckon it would be more of a challenge forcing Mitch Booth off the course than racing him.. Anyone reading this forum reckon they could do that..

I think it would be impossible to get a better finish to the series than what occurred.. Good show boys!

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