Repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true, Bill, sorry.

Let me see on which parts of your post I would like to give a individual answer.



>>I would never publish BS on this forum or any other forum.


Humm,

"all boats not using shared lift have massive lee helm under spi " ?

"ARC 17 should get a rating of about 65,8 (but was raced by yourself of 71 I believe)" ?

"Supercats are the only ones fitted with a righting bar " ?

"Texel speed record set outside the texel are no records and so the SC20 record is still standing" ? (Note how the sc20 record was set in august when the texel race was held in June that year)


To name but four of you more frequent errornous statements



>>That is not what these forums are for.


We agree on that.


>>Also in my little narrow window of sailing knowledge and experience, there must be millions of details about sailboats and rig designs that I do not know about. I do not claim to be "all knowledgeable" like some people.


Yet you are always very sure that everything good was first featured on a supercat or ARC boat. Squaretop mains, selftacking jibs, Spinnakers and now you are also sure that the introduction of the selftacker to beachcats can be fully traced back to a single ARC22 that was send to France in the early 90's. How can you possibly know that and how can you be sure ? Where did the selftacker on the initial Nacra 6.0 come from, that was designed somewhere around 1989 wasn't it ?

For a guy that now claims to have a narrow windows of knowlegde you have rather big claims in the past. And still dis so in your fore last post (French arc22 started it all claim ?)


>> Curved track ...second line ... but that wasn't good enough for me. I wanted it to be automatic, jib car position and sail shape controlled by one line.


News flash, In my earlier post I already expressed that my curved track selftacker doesn't have this second line either and works fine as well. So please tell us all again that curved tracks needs a second control line to work.


>>When the sheet was eased, the car moved out and the sail became fuller


And the sheeting angle to the jib is dropping below it optimal angle and thus slacks the leech causing twist in the upper part of the jib. This is the very reason why curved tracks are used on F18's and Tornado's. Gives better control over the leech.


>>And by the way Wouter, some Tornado sailors do let the jib car control line out for reaching.

Like I already said in my earlier post; only on distance races with very long reaching legs, hardly a frequent occurence. In other situations they just slack of the jib sheet and go for it or sail high above the proper line and hoist their spis early and before they get to the mark. All very standard practice now, they all do it. Seriously you'll need to look at these modern Tornado of the truly serious crews. They are more and more replacing the adjustable systems by simple set and forget setups. They trim the boat for upwind and have the spi do the downwind work and broad reaching. They don't any more on reaches then they do on downwinders. Slack of the downhaul, release some mainsheet tension, rotate the mast further and forget about the rest. All these small stuff takes to much time to correctly set up again after rounding C-mark for the next upwind leg.


>>That is why the jib tracks are more than 18 inches long.


F18's and Tornado's sheet their jibs out way more than 9 inches of the mast. 9 inches backwinds the mast and suffocates the slot. My selftacking jib with only a 1.2 mtr foot (= short = 3 feet) is sheeted about 12-14 inches off the mast already (upwind). And now you want us all to believe that 1.4 to 1.6 mtr footed F18 and Tornado jib are sheeted at 9 inches to the mast ?

Bill, you are wrong again.


>>The crew does have to come to the center of the tramp to uncleat and let out this control line.

They would have to do that if they want to adjust it, however in bouy races they never do and only long reaches in distances races it is worth doing to get that last bit of extra speed from the jib.


>>I want to point out that ARC products have both straight jib tracks and curved jib tracks for various reasons. I happen to like the straight track system better myself on the 27 and 30.


That is a personal opinion and that is fine.

Please just don't say that all other designs are wrong for not thinking the same thing. Ohh I should say for not 'recognizing' the same thing as you.


>>Another comment for Wouter: Wouter, I have been going to international boat shows since about 1970. I have looked over hundreds of sailboats of all sizes and shapes. Most of these boats were "cruiseing boats". I have never seen one of these boats rigged with a self tacking jib system. Cruiseing boats do not give a hoot about racing/rating rules.


Wrong ! Cruiseing boats customers follow trends seen in the racing classes. When these racing classes went for large overlapping jibs and genua's due to a loop hole in racing rules every cruise sailor wanted these rigs as well. Because the profi guys were sailing these and therefor they must be the best setup for speed, something even a casual cruiser pilot has a sweet spot for. Of course these overlapping foresail can not be fitted with a selftacker.

Besides your whole point is awkward. If selftackers are so much easier on cruisers and cruiser designers and customer don't give a damn about what racers do then why didn't boomed jibs, large battened mainsails with small jibs, and selftackers get into this market alot sooner. We all know what a pain in the neck these large genua's can be, and flapping mainsails not to mention tacking a mono with an overlapping jib. Over for that matter Gaff rigs and lug/Junk rigs ? Besides, boomed jibs and selftackers were rather common on (working) sail boat designs of the 19th century and early 20th century.



>>Within the next 5 years you will begin seeing cruiseing boats rigged with self tacking jib systems like beach cats have today.


Go back some 100 years and you'll see the same thing. Afterall what is a boomed jib ? All the Schooners had one.


>>The beach cat system, straight track, works very well and is very simple to work with one control line.

-1- The beach cat system (as most found on these) is the curved track setup; only ARC have the straight rail system and only a handfull of these exist in the world.

-2- I agree it can be made to work, especially on mono where the width to the foot of the sail is alot smaller than on a catamaran.

-3- On cruising monohulls I don't see a need to expensive hardware to have a selftacker. Just get a non-overlapping jib (maybe boomed) and two sheet points off to the side and in front of the mast. When taking uncleat the jib, let it swing over and tighten the sheet on the other side.


However I expect you are right with regard to the mono's just because the customers want to have these systems now that the racers are using them more and more.


Wouter