I have a tremendous amount of respect for all the tybee participants, and the list of those that are through the surf shows that the top teams are the ones that can handle the gnarly conditions, but still, why? Why not wait a day, furthermore, why even make people come crashing onto the beach or through the surf. To prove they are good sailors or racers or survivaists. I would suggest that a good MARINER would not put his/her vessel in such peril when given the choice not to. We all invest a lot of time and money in our boats and I have hard time seeing why start and finish lines for this particular distance race need to be on the beach rather than just offshore as in many other distance races, or why a start would even occur in such conditons......

flame on

charlie

Its hard to explain. I suppose I'd agree with you had I never been on the beach and done the race myself.

I can't explain it, but sitting here behind my computer, makes me want to go try it even more.

I can imagine the dicussion Trey and I would be having before the start.

Me: "Dude you sure about this? We don't have a spare mast"

Him: "cmon old man we're gonna do this"

Me: "Ok, but you're gonna get a 'I told you so' if we don't make it."


As for the start/finish lines. Getting boats out on the ocean at every stop would be quite difficult, plus launching and finishing in the surf is PART of the race. If you take all the danger out of it, its not going to ever be the same again.

I agree with that. It's up to the race organizers as to how they want this thing. Are they looking to attract more extreme sailors, or more general racing sailors? What do they feel is the target number of participants?

All these things come in to play long before people show up.

If they want something for the "mere mortals", they'd put in a lay day (so they could delay a leg based on conditions), or design the route so that you'd finish near an inlet (or on the intracoastal side of the inlet) to minimize surf damage.

But what fun would that be to watch? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'll be the first to admit that its not a race for everyone. The participants know what the race is all about, and what can happen. Between that and the logistics/cost of the race, no wonder only 13 teams show up.

I think to answer the question you must understand the history of this race and its predecessor the 1000. The race was run in the early days as a continual trek up the coast with teams landing to rest on the boat and returning to the water when ready. Had check points that were mandatory but no plush hotel rooms to rest in. The race continued regardless of conditions and was won by the first boat to land in NC. No daily times and corrections for this or that just flat out get there as fast as you could. Conditions such as todays would make me think add an extra crew member and go. I have never entered this race but had hoped to this year and was told I couldn't enter with my boat since it wasn't truely an F18. It appears now that it wouldn't have mattered since only one F18 is actually racing. Maybe next year the race comittee will see it differently!

Everything is fine ...Until somebody makes it through the Surf. Then all the rest of the fleethave to follow. It is a race!

I have followed the Worrell and the Tybee closely over the years. In fact my Boat wa lent to Mark Murray and Tommy Gonnzales for the last W 1000.

If the race was still being run w/o starts and on anything under 20' than I could understand the gung ho attitude. But the event has evolved into one of if not the premier mulithull race in north america.

First let me say that I am a lifelong and die hard multi sailoor who practically grew up on a stiletto. Iam also however a resident of RI and get lots of exposure through working as a rigger and just general New England sailing to the "Yachty" community is alternately excoriated and coveted on this forum. Here is what I here from them. "What kind of a disrespectful idiot would drive there boat up on the beach at 20 kts".. To which i would usually reply, what kind of an idiot would strap a ton of lead to 400 pound boat thus guaranteeing its sinking in the event of a minor collision...etc,etc. Still I feel that they have a point here. You dont need a RC boat at every start and finish. All you need is a 15 foot boston whaler to go and set a pin between the RC on the beach and the pin at sea. Allow the racers to cross the line and then make it back to shore as safely and SEAMANLY as possible.. It just seams totally unnecessary to go crahing $20,000 worth of equipment into the ground(literally) to try and save a few seconds. Even if it was an untimed event, than a boat with a two minute lead could gently cruise into the beach rather than sail full bore into it in order to save precious seconds!

It is hard to explain b/c it SUCKS!!! No getting around it. After you spend 10 or so hours on the same side of the boat on the wire, you butt hurts, your hands are tired and your feet are falling asleep. However, the adrenaline burn you get while rounding something like Cape Hatteras with all the people watching and the mayhem going on around you (monster pissups and capsizes)... it can't be replicated anywhere else.

Leaving the beach on the outer banks when it's blowing 35+ off shore doing a close reach on the edge of disaster, but consistently clocking HIGH 20's (bouncing off 30's) while the boat makes these insane howling noises and does what we call the "inter 20 wheelie" It is something that can never be described and has to be experienced to truly appreciate.

Oh... the night legs... there is no describing that. I'll throw this at you. 2am, 18 miles offshore of Myrtle Beach, double trapped at 25mph and only a couple of hours ago, you rounded a rock jetty that you couldn't see in the dark with the spinnaker up... after dodging fishing boats and sand bars...

However..... you have to be able to appreciate something like this to enjoy it.... ie. it's not for everyone. I still don't like tropical punch gatoraid!! Would I do it again? YES, in a second!! (however next time as a skipper or with a better skipper)

All of that sounds awesome and totally worth it, except for the starts and finishes. Any offshore race, hell any offshore sailing, especially at night is exhilarating and fundamentally dangerous. It is the starts and finishes that kills me. I just dont get why that is necessary. The only thing taken away from the event, in my mind, is the reckless destruction of gear and the unneeded endangerment of racers. You would get the Inter 20 "wheelie" if that was the start or not, you still have to get out there. Why not let people get on/off the beach in as seamanlike manner as possible w/o penalizing their finish.

Let me re-iterate it clearly.

Because that is what the race is. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to sail in it. We all think its a boat load of fun. You don't and thats fine. It is what it is.

Gear can be fixed and bottoms can be refinished. Its all part of doing the race.

Lol, I know your boat, we towed Mark and Tommy to shore when they broke their mast. I watched the stick crumple and had to coax the "skipper" into stopping for them.

It isn't for everyone and I don't think it's meant to be for everyone. Like Maug said, "if you don't like it, don't do it". It's the truth. It's a spin off of the original race and I think the beach landings and night legs were keeping in the spirit of the original race's challenges.

I think there are two big reasons.

1. It gains media attention with the beach starts and finishes. It's a place everyone can easily gather to see the action

2. It would be a logistical nightmare to start the race on the oceanside if you didn't force teams to go through the surf. If they sailed through a line between a bouy and the shore most teams on bad days would then continue a long way to an inlet somewhere to take their boat out rather than risk coming ashore and breaking something. Getting out would be the same issue. Teams would end up sailing a long way to get to the start line. A team might get a tow out from a powerboat. Then other teams wouldn't have access to the powerboat and complain. Then getting the mark out there on bad days would be really hard. You would have to set it way offshore to be clear of the waves. The committee would have a hard time seeing the whole line and calling over early boats.

I don't like it either but it does make sense. I don't know if I would have risked going out this morning. I never saw conditions that bad the year I did it. Somehow I feel a little cheated. ???

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

Its one place the in this politically correct world where a sailor can push himself to the max and let physics sort out the best from the good with no apologies and no excuses.

Regards,
Bob

This race sounds fantastic.
As my friend says.
Most people wake up and get out of bed and get dressed and then get in the closet. At the end of the day they get out of the closet, get undressed have a shower and go to bed....or you can go outside AND LIVE!

It's one race among 100s you can go do anytime you want. WHY would you want to change it to be like all the rest. The danger is a huge part of these races and why many of us do them. Just like Tad said it ain't for everybody don't try to change it to make it for you.
This kind of post inevitably gets posted(not usually by anyone who was in the race) everytime a race is held in any kind of extreme condition.I was at Jensen and kept trying until they told us we'd be disqualified if we tried again.I applaud the RC decision to stick to their guns in the sense that they didn't backpedal on their decision and keep anyone from competing.
Todd

Ok, Ok, Get out the measuring stick. i never saidit wouould not be fun and am not even opposed to participating. Just wondering why people thaought it was sooooo essential . sheesh

I think Mike hit on a good reason why it is essential logistically. It does make for a pretty exciting start/finish to watch that you just don't see every day. How often are you going to come to the beach at high speed with the kite up on the wire?

The Iron Man of Catsailing. If you can't get off the beach correctly you lose. You have to sail the boat in such a way that you push every limit yet preserve the equipment ala NASCAR, you get pit stops to lick your wounds and refuel.
Bad butt concept, bad butt sailors.... One day....

I think the saying USED to go...

"Iron sailors, plastic boats"

I know this thread was just to provoke a response but...The boats are called beach cats...

I have been sailing on the ocean for 17 years. The hardest part of sailing a beach cat is getting the boat off the beach. Once you are out there, it is easy.

PS: thanks for all who showed up at the party. It was a lot of fun. My wife even enjoyed it.